If anyone can give me some info I would be grateful. OK, so in a month or so or two, I need to get someone a present. And my thinking has been to get a Gibson SG standard. Now my question is at nearly half the price you can get a Gibson SG special. That is probably the most that I would ever spend on a guitar for myself becasue I have already had an experience with a reaonably expensive acoustic guitar that just didnt shake it. But thsi is not for me and I wnat to get something pretty lekker you see so that they will say listen Ed got me a what what and that is something grand. Then I have been thingking about these Tokais that everyone is screaming about and from what I can gather they are sharp. But I would like some info like where the heck do I go to buy one of these Tokais? Are they as good as the Gibsons? Are they cheaper than the Gibsons? Any $ talk will need to be PM'd lest I incur the wrath of the mods etc.. You know another guitar that I've been thinking about is a Les Paul. Personally I think it is quite as ugly as they get but I say again this is not for me and who gets it is going to think they are quite the shiz with a LP. But as much as I want to be generous and buy people's love and affection and all, I have to keep a little stash for bail from time to time.
SG
Ray... I never knew that we were so close? You must have seen that my birthday is June 28. I wont look back at this thread 'cos I want it to be a suprise ?
Sheeyittt! Didnt know you were watching. Anyway, now that you knwo you may as well scout around and pick the model you want.
Well, I've already owned a Gibson SG Special, and apart from being better balanced than an Epiphone SG G-400 that I also had, the differences were not that great. Never tried a Standard, so my thinking would be that a Standard would be a lot better than the Special... but buy my whatever you want!Ray wrote: Sheeyittt! Didnt know you were watching. Anyway, now that you knwo you may as well scout around and pick the model you want.
Ray, PM Lance (TokaiSA) 'cos he's allowed to tell you where they are by PM.
Tokais are every bit as good as Gibsons. Different specs for equivalent models though.
Yes, new they are cheaper. The lower priced Made-in-Japan SG should retail around R8K-R9K. It is modelled after the 1961-1963 SG Standards (small pickguard - deep neck join). Cheaper than a new Gibson SG Standard. The Gibson SG Special Faded (I assume you're talking about), is possibly cheaper, but obviously is a little differently put together than a standard.
The MIC Tokai SG is roughly equivalent to the Epiphone SG400 (and should cost about the same) but will have fretboard binding.
Tokais are every bit as good as Gibsons. Different specs for equivalent models though.
Yes, new they are cheaper. The lower priced Made-in-Japan SG should retail around R8K-R9K. It is modelled after the 1961-1963 SG Standards (small pickguard - deep neck join). Cheaper than a new Gibson SG Standard. The Gibson SG Special Faded (I assume you're talking about), is possibly cheaper, but obviously is a little differently put together than a standard.
The MIC Tokai SG is roughly equivalent to the Epiphone SG400 (and should cost about the same) but will have fretboard binding.
Thanks for that SM. Started phoning around and I'm disappointing myself actually. Why? because I'm sort of veering toward the name on the headstock thing which is not so clever in the normal situation. But it's not a normal situation.
You gotta let us in on that sometime. ?Ray wrote: Thanks for that SM. Started phoning around and I'm disappointing myself actually. Why? because I'm sort of veering toward the name on the headstock thing which is not so clever in the normal situation. But it's not a normal situation.
Fair enough. As a gift, the name will probably make a big impact.
I remember guitartone.co.za (?) advertising Sg Std's for 11500.
I was an owner of a Gibson SG standard a while back, was a great "looking" guitar... now the tone I didnt like(subjective).
I sold it about 5 years ago for.....R6500
biiiig mistake!!!
Gibsons are in the country once again and in opinion the new 2000 and up Gibsons are quite..well... terrible(workmanship, tone and feel)
Tokai's now that is a great value for money guitar? feels good and good tone... Marshall Music, Music Connection all stock them.
For the price of a Les Paul standard, I wouldnt waste my time... would rather get a USA Paul Reed Smith anyday.
Remember in the end.... You arent gonna get a Gibson tone out of a Tokai; if you want a Gibson tone/feel...get a Gibson?
I sold it about 5 years ago for.....R6500
biiiig mistake!!!Gibsons are in the country once again and in opinion the new 2000 and up Gibsons are quite..well... terrible(workmanship, tone and feel)
Tokai's now that is a great value for money guitar? feels good and good tone... Marshall Music, Music Connection all stock them.
For the price of a Les Paul standard, I wouldnt waste my time... would rather get a USA Paul Reed Smith anyday.
Remember in the end.... You arent gonna get a Gibson tone out of a Tokai; if you want a Gibson tone/feel...get a Gibson?
free2rhyme wrote: Remember in the end.... You arent gonna get a Gibson tone out of a Tokai; if you want a Gibson tone/feel...get a Gibson?
Blasphemy! >
That's quite the generalisation, how many post 2000 Gibsons did you play in the 11 years since then?free2rhyme wrote:
Gibsons are in the country once again and in opinion the new 2000 and up Gibsons are quite..well... terrible(workmanship, tone and feel)
Link for guitartone
http://www.guitartone.co.za/
Lol wow. Without being biased my 2007 LP is the best I have played to date (We are all allowed our preferences). Never been setup and still plays fantastic.free2rhyme wrote:
Gibsons are in the country once again and in opinion the new 2000 and up Gibsons are quite..well... terrible(workmanship, tone and feel)
Everything musical is ALWAYS subjective. Its my opinion and mine only, I have only ever liked 1 of my 5 Gibsons I've owned and that was the LP Supreme. Everything else was just underwhelming and not worth the $$$; it felt like I was paying more for the name than the actual instrument. This also happened to Fender guitars for a while, but they have lifted their game slightly since.
I put my opinion and my experience, I'm sure people have had good times with their Gibsons but I haven't
And there's nothing wrong with saying if you want a Gibson sound, get a Gibson?
I put my opinion and my experience, I'm sure people have had good times with their Gibsons but I haven't
And there's nothing wrong with saying if you want a Gibson sound, get a Gibson?
Explain? ?free2rhyme wrote: Remember in the end.... You arent gonna get a Gibson tone out of a Tokai; if you want a Gibson tone/feel...get a Gibson?
I gotta agree with BS on this one. As much as I think Tokai is overpunted here, they're pretty awesome guitars. And if you want a real nice LP, they're a really good choice. You're not paying for the name and heritage of a Gibson and you can get an equivalent instrument for less money. Most people won't even hear much difference between a choice of 6 or so (How many did we test that day? ?) LPs, and that was a pair of Gibsons, a bunch of Tokais and a couple Epis (Not to mention I think pickups made WAY more of a difference than the actual guitars did). To say it was a variation on theme might be overstating it already. I'd say it's more akin to a bag of apples. You'll find one that has just the right sourness for you, but overall, they taste very similar in comparison to an orange.Tokai SA wrote:Explain? ?free2rhyme wrote: Remember in the end.... You arent gonna get a Gibson tone out of a Tokai; if you want a Gibson tone/feel...get a Gibson?
Just my 5 cents ...
If you want cent for cent value on quality many would argue a Tokai ...
If you want "original" old vibe/design/"look" with a better long-term resale value, Gibson would be the ticket.
Any brand/individual model is capable of jaw-dropping quality or shocking sloppiness.
"Made in USA" doesn't guarantee anything, nor does it always imply "insanely over-priced" ...
Just saw a US website page with a Gibson Explorer for $ 1400.00 new - multiply by 10ish for exchange, VAT & duties.
Same guitar today was R 12k with case in Marshall NETT.
I would say this proves we don't ALWAYS pay too much in this country - depends on the market/brand mark-ups.
Then again I've never played a Tokai "Explorer" if there is one ...
Then there are always the local Fender prices ?
I played a couple of the Tokais with Alan - although they were generally impeccably built, they did not sound EXACTLY like the latest bunch of Gibson Les Paul Standards & Traditionals that I've twiddled on ... they were a VERY close 2nd though if the Gibson is the exact design/tone you're after.
The same speculation happens around Heritage Guitars VS Gibson (google it & read up a bit) ...
There's always 2 sides to every purchase/debate ...
PS - If I had money to waste I would love to hook up the same spec "Gibson" LP or SG model in the Epiphone, Tokai & Gibson ranges with the SAME set of eg Gibson 57 Classics or Burstbuckers - then jam & record all 3 on the same amp with the same mic and listen back afterwards to hear the truth ...
If you want cent for cent value on quality many would argue a Tokai ...
If you want "original" old vibe/design/"look" with a better long-term resale value, Gibson would be the ticket.
Any brand/individual model is capable of jaw-dropping quality or shocking sloppiness.
"Made in USA" doesn't guarantee anything, nor does it always imply "insanely over-priced" ...
Just saw a US website page with a Gibson Explorer for $ 1400.00 new - multiply by 10ish for exchange, VAT & duties.
Same guitar today was R 12k with case in Marshall NETT.
I would say this proves we don't ALWAYS pay too much in this country - depends on the market/brand mark-ups.
Then again I've never played a Tokai "Explorer" if there is one ...
Then there are always the local Fender prices ?
I played a couple of the Tokais with Alan - although they were generally impeccably built, they did not sound EXACTLY like the latest bunch of Gibson Les Paul Standards & Traditionals that I've twiddled on ... they were a VERY close 2nd though if the Gibson is the exact design/tone you're after.
The same speculation happens around Heritage Guitars VS Gibson (google it & read up a bit) ...
There's always 2 sides to every purchase/debate ...
PS - If I had money to waste I would love to hook up the same spec "Gibson" LP or SG model in the Epiphone, Tokai & Gibson ranges with the SAME set of eg Gibson 57 Classics or Burstbuckers - then jam & record all 3 on the same amp with the same mic and listen back afterwards to hear the truth ...
I'll be amazed if this doesn't degenerate into a fight ? If it doesn't it means we've all come a long way.
There's more variety between various Gibson options than there is between any given Gibson guitar and its Tokai "equivalent." Tokai makes a far more limited range of models. Even between them, the ones based on Gibson models make no attempt to be like modern Gibsons, since all of them are based on "classic" Gibsons that Japanese buyers revere most.
So while there are differences between models given prices, they are all working towards the same "standard." So a cheaper model might have say, a two piece body with poly finish and a more expensive one might have a '50s style aluminium tailpiece and 1 piece body, and nitro finish. But they're shooting for the same thing - price dependent. Gibson, on the other hand offers a wide variety of models with greatly varying features and modern adaptations, etc.. So two Gibson models based on the same original guitar might sound and feel quite different.
With the same pickups, Tokais will sound and feel very close to the Gibson historic guitars - since they are also based on the "classic" models and made to similar spec..
There's more variety between various Gibson options than there is between any given Gibson guitar and its Tokai "equivalent." Tokai makes a far more limited range of models. Even between them, the ones based on Gibson models make no attempt to be like modern Gibsons, since all of them are based on "classic" Gibsons that Japanese buyers revere most.
So while there are differences between models given prices, they are all working towards the same "standard." So a cheaper model might have say, a two piece body with poly finish and a more expensive one might have a '50s style aluminium tailpiece and 1 piece body, and nitro finish. But they're shooting for the same thing - price dependent. Gibson, on the other hand offers a wide variety of models with greatly varying features and modern adaptations, etc.. So two Gibson models based on the same original guitar might sound and feel quite different.
With the same pickups, Tokais will sound and feel very close to the Gibson historic guitars - since they are also based on the "classic" models and made to similar spec..
I don't think I should explain... If Tokai's were as good as Gibsons why would people even buy a Gibson? Why would Gibson even be around if Tokai were "just" as good?
Let's get real here people, people like them for their warmness and tone, tokai gets close but in the end is an imitation.
You can't tell me that I am the only one here that when he picks up an expensive guitar, it puts a phycological advantage over the cheaper guitars? In other words...when you hold a Gibson, you KNOW its a Gibson...
I may be wrong, but let the feel of the guit guide you... I'm a brand GAS *hore I guess?
Let's get real here people, people like them for their warmness and tone, tokai gets close but in the end is an imitation.
You can't tell me that I am the only one here that when he picks up an expensive guitar, it puts a phycological advantage over the cheaper guitars? In other words...when you hold a Gibson, you KNOW its a Gibson...
I may be wrong, but let the feel of the guit guide you... I'm a brand GAS *hore I guess?
Heritage. Same as when you buy a Ferarri, you're not just buying a car, you're buying into a part of a dynasty.free2rhyme wrote: I don't think I should explain... If Tokai's were as good as Gibsons why would people even buy a Gibson? Why would Gibson even be around if Tokai were "just" as good?
Let's get real here people, people like them for their warmness and tone, tokai gets close but in the end is an imitation.
You can't tell me that I am the only one here that when he picks up an expensive guitar, it puts a phycological advantage over the cheaper guitars? In other words...when you hold a Gibson, you KNOW its a Gibson...
I may be wrong, but let the feel of the guit guide you... I'm a brand GAS *hore I guess?
Lets get real, what the hell are the differences between the slabs of mahogany and maple, and how they're put together? They're both trying to emulate the same thing, both buying wood from the same place, both using the same construction techniques.
Definitely not. That's one of the aspects that create the appeal of bespoke and high end guitars. I guarantee you if I handed you a super premium range Tokai, it'd be as good as any Gibson you have played.
@Ez 2 posts down, you're right we're way outta place here
Our bad.We've been over this before. I vote for a back on-topic discussion about Ray's SG for this thread. Maybe we should create an "Original versus Imitation" thread where we can bash it out whenever we feel like we need to argue needlessly (I know I like that sort of thing from time to time).free2rhyme wrote: I don't think I should explain... If Tokai's were as good as Gibsons why would people even buy a Gibson? Why would Gibson even be around if Tokai were "just" as good?
Let's get real here people, people like them for their warmness and tone, tokai gets close but in the end is an imitation.
You can't tell me that I am the only one here that when he picks up an expensive guitar, it puts a phycological advantage over the cheaper guitars? In other words...when you hold a Gibson, you KNOW its a Gibson...
I may be wrong, but let the feel of the guit guide you... I'm a brand GAS *hore I guess?