bass into valve amp

stu

I got myself a bass today ? Pictures will be posted tomorrow.

Anyway, I understand that playing a bass into a guitar amp is okay as long as its not too loud.
Now, not too loud on a 10 watt SS amp is very different to not too loud on a 120 watt valve amp. Yes?
10% volume on the 10w is very soft compared to 10% on the 120w.

Not that I want to play loud but I was just wonder how loud I could play it. I have a 120 valve amp.

Another question I have been wondering about for a while is why are there virtually no valve bass amps? They are obviously not used for bass for some reason...

Bob-Dubery

stu wrote: Another question I have been wondering about for a while is why are there virtually no valve bass amps? They are obviously not used for bass for some reason...

I don't know about not used right now - though I'd find it hard to believe - but they most certainly can be used. Plenty of records have been made and shows performed with the bass guitarist playing through tubes.

I'm guessing that valve bass amps get heavy because of the size of certain components, thus rendering them impractical. Bass certainly seems to have got better defined and ... well... bassier over the years, so it may be that solid state does a better job at the low end (or it may be that recording equipment has gotten better at the low end), but valves most certainly can be used and have been.

PS: Smacking myself on forehead here. How is it that Fender ended up with a line of valve amplifiers called "Bassman"?

bottledtone

When I have been asked to build a valve bass amp, I quickly point at the costs involved.
The output transformer has to be much larger and better wound than an amp intended for guitar. This is due to the lower frequencies that the transformer has to transfer to the speakers.
Also, a guitarist is quite happy that his signal is getting compressed and distorted and sees it as a colouration of his sound. It actually why we like valve amps. But a bass player normal wants to repoduce his bass as clean as he can, so the need for higher wattage so the amp doesn't distort.
Solidstate is pretty sterile and produces bass more effieciently and cheaper than a valve amp would.
Larger transformers, higher voltage (if using 6550/KT88 which are more expensive), better power supply etc etc.
Just a lot of trouble for a valve amp to not be used for what it sounds best. IMHO, and I only build valve equipment.

Explorerlover

"Ace of Spades!!!!!!!!!!!" ?

AlanRatcliffe

Nothing wrong with valves for a bass amp - just a different sound. I love a bit of valve crunch on bass, but generally bass players prefer the headroom, clarity and tight low end of solid-state. I often use my Twin's normal channel for bass and it works very well with the treble control rolled off a bit.

MIKA-the-better-one

I found fender bassman with bass guitar reallysuck, they are so much better with guitar amps...
If I was to go pick up a bass, I would pick up an ampeg SVT3 (I think) full valve head. OR a smaller ampeg B12....... They sound much warmer than SS bass amps....

Manfred-Klose

i would use bass into a valve as something extra in a recording.

your main signal be the DI signal, and the second signal into your valve amp for some color and clarity on certain notes.

it created a cool effect, but dont always sound that good, but its good to always have an option.
and you have to make sure the 2 signals dont cancel out each other.

Jack-Flash-Jr

bottledtone wrote: When I have been asked to build a valve bass amp, I quickly point at the costs involved.
The output transformer has to be much larger and better wound than an amp intended for guitar. This is due to the lower frequencies that the transformer has to transfer to the speakers.
Also, a guitarist is quite happy that his signal is getting compressed and distorted and sees it as a colouration of his sound. It actually why we like valve amps. But a bass player normal wants to repoduce his bass as clean as he can, so the need for higher wattage so the amp doesn't distort.
Solidstate is pretty sterile and produces bass more effieciently and cheaper than a valve amp would.
Larger transformers, higher voltage (if using 6550/KT88 which are more expensive), better power supply etc etc.
Just a lot of trouble for a valve amp to not be used for what it sounds best. IMHO, and I only build valve equipment.

Exactly this... also, as mentioned, the weight! A SS bass amp is heavy enough for my roadie ( :rolleyes: ) to carry...

Edit: speaker cone design also differs between bass and guitar amps, in the long term a bass may damage your speakers if the cone was not intended for super low extended bass frequencies.

Edit 2: looking forward to the pics!

stu

Thanks guys. I thought that valve just didnt work with bass or something. I havent ever really seen a valve bass amp but I will be on the look out for them now.

Pictures have been uploaded ?

MIKA-the-better-one

Oh you have seen it on just about every stage on music DVD's... Most bassists (pro) that I love use them as do most others ?

Gearhead

The reason why a Bassman does not work with bass is that Leo skimped too much on the OPT and did not use the right size coupling caps. Don't let this deter anyone though - Ampeg got it right with the SVT mainly because of the use of cathode followers.
As far as output tubes are concerned, yes the sixtets of 6550s into twenty pounds of copper and iron would become cumbersome to lug around in the end. But would a pair of KT120s not cure this?
If you like the sound of tubes but need a light headroomy amp, you can always combine a SVT like preamp with a class-D power stage :-\

Karel-Mars

Talking of tube bass amps...

What about the Mesa 400 head?

http://www.harmonycentral.com/reviews/167141

Has anyone played one of those?