DrGonzo
Hey any of you have any playing time and opinions of the Axe FX by Fractal Audio??
There is really a huge hype online about this and it has an ever increasing professional artist endorsements with the like of Petrucci, Vai, Adrian belew, Dweezil Zappa and many more!
Is it worth the hype? Tube amp tone and feel more or less? END ALL solution to GAS? ?
Youtube clips sound awesome but you know thats never a reliable base to judge on!
In really GAS'ing for a reliable recording solution... I have now gone and got this ridiculously loud vintage Marshall head and cab and have realised I can hardly ever play (stay in a town house) or record it and can only get a few (albeit awesome) tones out of it!?
guitarboy2828
Try a search on the forum, been spoken about quite a bit. There is at least one guy with it on the forum - Muhammad. He loves his and from the sound clips he's posted, he has every right too! ?
Tokai-SA
IMO
$2000 for the unit, the Ultra, another $800 for the foot controller...that will cost you about R24,000.00 to land in SAfrica incl shipping and VAT, excluding import duties.
Axe plus foot controller, $2800, Pod HD500 $450.
Listen to this guys basic HD500 tones, show me Axe-FX tones that sounds $2350 better.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1112738&content=music
Tokai-SA
Here's another way of looking at it.
For the price of an Axe-FX "Standard" and floorboard, you can get a Line 6 DT50 amp (Bogner) and the HD500, and get some spare change.
Research the Line 6 DT50, it's mind blowing all on it's own even without the HD500 connected to it.
Warren
My 2c:
The Axe-Fx has kind-of spearheaded a generation of modelling gear which is either "as good", "better" or "nearly as good" as the stuff it models, depending upon who you talk to.
Problem is this type of tech becomes cheaper and better quite quickly as the hardware and software improves, so the Axe-Fx is asking for some heavy money compared to the likes of the new Pods, and as Tokai SA has mentioned you need to question whether the premium is really worth it. Software solutions like Amplitube and Guitar Rig are getting better all the time too (they also have an upgrade path), and work especially well for the home recording market.
The Axe-Fx certainly does sound amazing though, if you check out some of those groove metal clips Chad posted you'll hear what it's capable of. It's just really expensive.
singemonkey
As a rule, it's a good idea to avoid spending too much on digital stuff unless you're a professional. The resale value goes on a steep downward curve towards zero that measured over about four years. So buying the fanciest state of the art stuff is going to lose you a lot of money unless it's justified by being a pro musician who needs that piece of gear.
And when something 90% as good costs a fraction of the price it just seems like throwing cash away for me.
BMU
What everyone said. No doubt about the Axe's credentials, but there are a lot cheaper, easier ways to get good recorded tones. In fact some of the best start at $0, check out TSE X30 and Poulin LE56/Legion/Lecto etc. amp sims.
guitarboy2828
Tokai SA wrote:
IMO
$2000 for the unit, the Ultra, another $800 for the foot controller...that will cost you about R24,000.00 to land in SAfrica incl shipping and VAT, excluding import duties.
Axe plus foot controller, $2800, Pod HD500 $450.
Listen to this guys basic HD500 tones, show me Axe-FX tones that sounds $2350 better.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1112738&content=music
Tokai, I really liked your response, made a lot of sense to me.. So much so that I want to get an HD500 ?
Malkav
BMU wrote:
What everyone said. No doubt about the Axe's credentials, but there are a lot cheaper, easier ways to get good recorded tones. In fact some of the best start at $0, check out TSE X30 and Poulin LE56/Legion/Lecto etc. amp sims.
^5 for this dude - The big thing about the axe-fx is that it models using impulses (which is some sort of midi system I don't understand) and the poulin stuff etc are all impulse models as well (to my knowledge). All I can say is that a friend and I have been trying out impulses through some of these amp models and reverbs/delays etc and they sound GODLY ?
arjunmenon
BMU wrote:
What everyone said. No doubt about the Axe's credentials, but there are a lot cheaper, easier ways to get good recorded tones. In fact some of the best start at $0, check out TSE X30 and Poulin LE56/Legion/Lecto etc. amp sims.
Excellent post man. I can vouch for the poulin sims after spending Saturday afternoon at BMU's.
BMU
Yep those free sims + impulses can sound pretty good. Arjun is referring to the last track I posted here, which used exactly that.
Thread link.
Also, bear in mind an Axe-FX can sound good or bad depending on the skill of the producer. I've heard bad sounding Axe clips because the art is in hanging the *MIX* together, which will always be difficult no matter how much $$$ your amp, amp sim or heck, even full blown amp+mic+studio is worth.
But is the Axe-FX cool? Oh hell yeah, no arguments there. It's just not a rational value proposition for 99% of us. And Moore's Law marches inexorably forward as clever people pack ever more computing power into cheaper, smaller packages.
DrGonzo
Thanks Mucho for your replies peoples! ?
Crikey I never knew it was THAT expensive - I was preparing myself for something more like R12k!
Agreed with what a few of you say... I can probably get very close to it using a cheaper option!
I really need to stop this obsession with having the absolute best equipment, no alternatives accepted approach, and play more guitar! its really driving me mad!
Having said that, back to the GAS - What about some Real amp options - Like a good versatile small combo or a tube preamp?
What about the Mesa TriAxis preamp, I know Gearhead has one - anyone else have any opinions??
I can pick that up for about $800 on ebay (minus shipping) but then I will need to get a poweramp as well tho... apparently it sounds not so great direct.
singemonkey
Well, there you go. With a tube amp or analogue pedals, you can afford to spend more. Because if worst comes to the worst, you can sell again at minimal loss - even15 years down the line. Here I don't see any real problem with wanting the best if it's not so obscure that no one else will recognise the value if you need to sell.
Gearhead
+1 I reckon I can sell my Triaxis at no loss except for five preamp tubes. Small market, so it would take time.
Muhammad
Oo er, I seem to have stumbled upon a hornet's nest ?
First up,
Tokai is right, importing an Axe is expensive.
Do your homework, budget, and then stash 5 grand extra away for some hidden expense like extra duties etc..
Regarding the comparisons to other modellers..
This has been done to death but anyway this is why the PODs and GT-10's etc dont compare;
Processing power is one part of an equation when it comes to modelling.
1. You need well written effecient and accurate programming that models the sound your looking for.
2. You need sufficient processing power to execute said algorithms.
3. you need memory to run multiple algorithms (the more memory, the more effects etc)
4. You need dedicated circuity (ADC's, DAC's, IC's, Capacitors) to convert all of this data to sound.
The reason line6 and boss etc dont have any comparable products to the Axe is simple.
They invest in new processing power to run their algorithms with each new model.
This is an area of manufacturing that they spend money on.
The algorithms are not totally rewritten for each product cycle, just expanded because they can be run by newer, faster processing power.
They then buy the exact same cheap circuitry (mass production means buying cheap to keep costs down) to do all of the interface and conversion stuff.
So each generation sounds a bit better than the next, due to a larger more complex sound model. (one could argue that the more complex models are programmed more sloppily because the programmers have a larger processing overhead due to the newer hardware, ultimately though, there is undoubtedly a sonic improvement)
So where does the Axe differ?
1. The algorithms used by Cliff (the axe designer) are proprietary models. He's an Engineer with a background in mining (he developed some sort of sonar guided mining exploration system iirc from an old interview I read). Their accuracy speaks for itself in all of the clips you've heard, and, unlike the big companies, Cliff is constantly listening to everyone's feedback to improve them, sometimes beyond the capabilities of the real world components they model. (He's a really nice guy, I've had PM conversations with him about stuff from time to time) and he'll share those improvements with you as free updates.
2. The processor that's in the axe is not the kind that sits in your PC at home. It's called a DSP, and it's designed to deal with math that relates to sound modelling. As dsp's go, the tigersharc dsp in the axe is the best dsp money can buy. Much, much faster that anything the big companies would buy (cos it costs alot more)
3. The components too are all the best in their respective fields. No expense was spared in designing the thing which is why it costs so much. Every input and output is of the highest quality. It really has to be heard to be believed.
The thing is, line 6 makes thousands of the pod in a factory. They cut costs where they can (it makes good business sense) they only add things that the market demands and they target us, the mid-range enthusiast/working musician so they keep costs within that narrow band and try to stay competitive.
Cliff made the axe without an upper limit.
He put everything he dreamed should be in a modeller, in it.
He sells whats he sells but doesnt cut corners to keep costs down.
In effect, the Axe is a boutique modeller.
No one else will build one like it for years to come.
And Axe unit NEVER ever sell for less than 90% of purchase price, infact, most I've seen on sale are more expensive that buying from Fractal Audio themselves. (Usually when Fractal is out of stock, which is often nowadays!)
So phew, do what you will with that info..
singemonkey
Muhammad, I don't think anyone was criticising the quality of the unit. Just pointing out that the difference in price for the extra quality may not be justifiable to this specific OP. It's not to say it isn't justified for anyone.
Muhammad
singemonkey wrote:
Muhammad, I don't think anyone was criticising the quality of the unit. Just pointing out that the difference in price for the extra quality may not be justifiable to this specific OP. It's not to say it isn't justified for anyone.
Lol, I wasn't defending the Axe so much as setting a few misconceptions in order..
Your right in that it might not be appropriate or cost effective for some people's need (eg. OP) but hell we buy with our hearts as much as our heads so sometimes rational thought is not always the deciding vote in buying gear..
The main point I hoped to get across is that the axe is not another digital thing that will get cheaper.. It's out for three years and it has never dropped in price, new or second hand, so in terms of resale value I think it should be classified as an amp or pedal. At least overseas..
Tokai-SA
Muhammad wrote:
Regarding the comparisons to other modellers..
This has been done to death but anyway this is why the PODs and GT-10's etc dont compare;
Processing power is one part of an equation when it comes to modelling.
I have to disagree, Muhammad.
The processing power of the guitarist/musician/engineer is more important than the processing power of the computer chip.
If I were to use an Axe-FX and one of the excellent guitarists on this forum were to use a Pod HD or GT10, they'd produce better recorded and live tones than I would.
Many Axe-FX owners think because they own the "Mercedes" of modellers they're automatically going to produce "Mercedes" tones...but they don't.
My 2 cents. ?
Muhammad
Tokai SA wrote:
Muhammad wrote:
Regarding the comparisons to other modellers..
This has been done to death but anyway this is why the PODs and GT-10's etc dont compare;
Processing power is one part of an equation when it comes to modelling.
I have to disagree, Muhammad.
The processing power of the guitarist/musician/engineer is more important than the processing power of the computer chip.
If I were to use an Axe-FX and one of the excellent guitarists on this forum were to use a Pod HD or GT10, they'd produce better recorded and live tones than I would.
Many Axe-FX owners think because they own the "Mercedes" of modellers they're automatically going to produce "Mercedes" tones...but they don't.
My 2 cents. ?
Absolutely, but thats not quite a scientific comparison is it?
Two different people with two different pieces of equipment has no controls.
A more reliable comparison would be one person using both pieces of equipment.
That would then test the validity of the argument that one piece of equipment is superior to the other.
In your comparison there's no isolation of the variability of player skill..
ok lol I know i'm being difficult.
time for bed methinks ?
BMU
I find it really noteworthy that a 2nd hand Axe actually sells for MORE than a new unit - the money vote is indicating that this thing is something special. And it's been going on for a while, a few years now.
It's not actually that unheard of expensive compared to the cost of amps. Personally I'd buy an Axe-FX sooner than I'd buy e.g. a Dual Rectifier. (But software sims beat 'em both for my personal needs at this point in time. Both cost and convenience.)
I'm very curious to see how things develop, the continual exponential increase in computing power combined with business competition should make things very interesting in the next few years.
