Balancing Springs and Strings

NorioDS · 2010-12-03T15:01:36+00:00

Okay so I changed my strings on my guitar today (it has a floating bridge). I decided to remove on of the springs at the back to loosen the tension on the whammy bar but, in doing so, I've made it nearly impossible to tune my guitar AND have the bridge parallel with the guitar. I've tightened the springs at the back as far as they will go and still no luck. Should I try a V-configuration for the remaining 2 springs or just give up and put the 3rd spring back? (Or is there an option C?) N

AlanRatcliffe

You don't need a double-locking system if you are using a fixed bridge. That's overkill. Graph Tech nut and locking tuners will already be way more than needed for that. Locking tuners eliminate any extra string wrap, the nut clears any friction or binding and without no whammy motorcycle noises, there's no chance of the ball-ends shifting in the bridge. You've got an angled headstock, so no string trees to contend with either.

When my guitars go out of tune, I know I need to change the strings - old strings are the only thing that can cause any tuning instability.

NorioDS

Thanks Alan ?

What does a graph tech nut + locking tuners + labour cost on average? Just a ballpark figure so I can plan for it a bit. I hope to start gigging sometime in the future so I'm going to have to start taking stuff like this more seriously and want to have it in the back of my mind so that when the time comes, I'm ready.

N

NorioDS

@Chad, that's a very awesome looking bridge ?

I do think, though, that what I play is too simple to warrant that. I'm no Satriani or Vai. I just play simple tunes with the odd bend and a bit of whammy vibrato.

Malkav

Alan Ratcliffe wrote You don't need a double-locking system if you are using a fixed bridge. That's overkill. Graph Tech nut and locking tuners will already be way more than needed for that. Locking tuners eliminate any extra string wrap, the nut clears any friction or binding and without no whammy motorcycle noises, there's no chance of the ball-ends shifting in the bridge. You've got an angled headstock, so no string trees to contend with either.

I see your point, but on my 8-string you do need a locking fixed bridge - in fact I'd even recommend it on a 7-string, maybe not too important on a 6-string. For the same token if I were playing rock and roll I'd agree with you, but in a prog-metal band using electronic sounds etc tuning stability is everything. Also the guitar does have to get thrashed a little in the heavier moments and even slight slippage is unacceptable because of the static synths. On 7 & 8 string guitars the huge low strings tend to be finicky with tuning so it really helps to lock em down.

Norio wrote @Chad, that's a very awesome looking bridge ?

I do think, though, that what I play is too simple to warrant that. I'm no Satriani or Vai. I just play simple tunes with the odd bend and a bit of whammy vibrato.

Each to his own ? I think it's nice to just have a few different guitars to cover all the bases, but because that's expensive I like to stick to things that lock and have string counts higher than 6 ?

Funny enough though one of the first Ibanez guitars to receive their fixed edge bridge was the JS, the one that came in champagne gold or something like that I believe.

To be honest I just love pitching up at a gig tuning my guitar once and not having to worry about it for the rest of the set ?

NorioDS

I really can't comment coz I've just been playing in my bedroom ? Well, actually, it's my office. But ja, I'm not in your league. I'm a baby still ?

Aleks

I didn't read through the entire thread so somebody may have given you the answer that you need, in which case-credit goes to them, but I will say it just i case. ?
When restringing a guitar with a floating bridge, it is very important to bear in mind that the tension of the strings must equal the tension in the springs.
Remove all strings from the body. When restringing, put a hard,flat object between the bridge and guitar body and start stringing. If the flat object falls out, then the springs need to be tighter. If the bridge sinks into the body, then you need to loosen the springs. I am using 0.008 gauge strings. D'Addario(Extra-Super Light Gauge)is the brand I am using and I only use two springs in my guitar. The guitar in question is an Ibanez RG370DX.
If you aren't keen on changing your string gauge, you need to change the amount of springs in the guitar. Personally, I find the lighter gauge easier to play.
CAUTION : If you change to a lower gauge and back to a higher gauge, you will change the spring tension often. This causes you to pull the screws in and out of the body, slowly chipping the wood. This in turn can cause the wood to be permanently damage (I've experienced it first hand) but it is repairable. If you require any more help, then PM me. ?
I hope your problems are solved!

Wizard

I'm sure this has been answered before, so I apologise for my weak searching not having found it.

What are the pro's and con's of using 3 vs. 5 springs?
In a floating bridge setup they, by definition, apply the same force ... which is equal to the force of the tuned strings.
It's just the claw screws would be screwed in more tightly when you're using 3.

I'm thinking about adding the extra 2 springs and loosening the screws accordingly - what can I expect?

AlanRatcliffe

You do end up with a stiffer feel somehow (I've never figured out why), but you also get more spring resonance (which can be a bit much if you play unplugged without a backplate). Has a small effect on the plugged sound, how much depends on how microphonic your pickups are.

Wizard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote You do end up with a stiffer feel somehow (I've never figured out why) ...

Been thinking about this.
Here's a theory:

There's a difference between:
(a) The actual force applied by the counter-force, which are the springs (we all agree this counter-force must equal the force of the tuned springs)
(b) The tendency of this counterforce to change in response to an additional force, like a plucked string

Even though the 3 and 5 spring approaches apply the same counterforce, their resistance to change is different ... and hence their response to a plucked string would be different ... which would relate to your "stiffer feel somehow".
Who knows - maybe this is even a concept of mechanical impedance ... not knowledgeable enough to be sure.

Thanks - I wouldn't have thought of this if I hadn't asked the question and got your answer.
I was stuck on the fact that the counterforce was identical ...

Gearhead

If you consider that the 5 parallel springs have 5/3 of the stiffness of the 3 parallel springs, and both are parallel with the stiffness of the six strings... Then the stiffness difference must be about 15-25% depending on the gauge you play?

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