FruitarGeek
I was going over some legislation, as I have been really interested in how loud a band prac can be without upsetting the neighbors.
Its quite a grey area it seems, as the law says it must not be a 'nuisance' however nuisance in legal terms is 5db (enough to upset the atmospheric sound). They gotta be joking, cause thats seriously not loud at all, rustling leaves steal at a Whopin 10db. Do any of you have experience with this matter? I have a cranky neighbor, and I just want to know my rights. The law can be too vague sometimes.
For those of you interested, I found that out in s25 of the Environment Conservation Act (PN 627)
guidothepimmp
the law doesnt really help us at all.
from my experience the coppers only come around after tey receve a complaint. Now we have had times when the roof was lifting and neve ha any issues, then had days at reasonable volume where because a neighbour was full of it, we had the cops on our door 3 times.
They never take a decibel reading... they just say, turn it down...
>☹
TomCat
This is a very tricky one and often depends on your local by-laws.
Generally the following applies.
You may not be more than 6bB above ambient at your boundary.
What is ambient? Measurements are usually taken with a Class-1 meter over a 24 hour period and the results averaged out. These measurements have to be taken with a calibrated meter calibrated to the national standard at the CSIR and these measurements have to be done by a recognized aoustician should the whole matter end up in court. As can be seen, this is a complex and expensive exercise.
However, having said all that, should the local authority receive complaints about your noise then the local authority has the right to enforce a ban on your activity until you have put measures in place to prevent your activity from causing further complaints. They may also impose a fine.
How much you get away with will also depend on how vigilant the environmental officer for your local authority is.
BTW the thing about that complaints before midnight are not legit is a fallacy. You can be held responsible for excessive noise any time of the day.
Interesting trend lately has been the amount of noise issues that have arisen due to enterprises installing their own generators after the whole load shedding was started by Eskom.
shaundtsl
In my experience, its mostly been more about how late than how loud.
We used to pick up a few problem after going to Doors and at about 3am and deciding it was a good idea to have a jam, you know how much better you sound after about 12 beers... Thats when we had most of our trouble with the neighbours, but looking back at it now, I dont blame the neighbours at all :-[
MIKA-the-better-one
I play my bassman in my Cottage at 6, this is a 50 watt amp so thats LOUD..... my neihbours are about 10ft away............ I dont do it before 9, or after 6pm
And I respect there sundays..........
Once I some other neihbours show up at my gate, comlaining it was a noise.......... it was 2 in the afternoon, on a tuesday......... I didnt really care for there reasoning because they had n0thing better to complain about......... so I played until 4pm
I have had the cops show up, and I informed them it was a band practice, they left me alone.
Maybe I have a cool street, or just some luck.........
I dont care much for cranky neihbours, Just blast them.
AlanRatcliffe
A little diplomacy goes a long way. The absolute best thing to do is speak to your neighbours and see how they feel about it. Let them know you're willing to do what you can to minimise levels and only play at respectable hours (or keep it way down when you want to play at 2 am). You might be surprised.
I've taken no special precautions and play with the widow facing my closest neighbour open. I play a Twin and my wife's keyboard and our mics go through a pair of 150W powered speakers. Whenever my neighbour sees me, he tells me to turn it up...
FruitarGeek
Ya Alan
I agree with you, but unfortunately we cant all have neighbours as cool as your one. I mean, dont get me wrong, this neighbour of mine was complaining when I used to have weekly rehearsals at my house, but the music was kinda crap. haha. But even know, when im just jamming (No matter what time of day) he gives me the look >☹ (our properties see onto each other)
I know from a Law point of view, that its all about finding a balance, as I should be able to do whatever I want on MY OWN property however, being limited to their enjoyment of their property, but is there no hard and simple method of seeing if you are out of line. Playing after 12am when people generally sleep, is out of line, but lets say playing at 5pm. Whats the excuse then?
Wizard
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
I've taken no special precautions and play with the widow facing my closest neighbour open. I play a Twin and my wife's keyboard and our mics go through a pair of 150W powered speakers. Whenever my neighbour sees me, he tells me to turn it up...
If I played as well as Alan my neighbours would also ask me to turn it up ...
AlanRatcliffe
Opinions vary (including my own). You've never heard me sing though... ?
Riaan
Neighbours...what a strange lot they can be! They stand in cues for hours and pay hundreds or thousands of rands to go and see U2, but if live entertainment happens right next door, for free, they complain? I just don't get it... ?
I read once that Keith Richard's neighbours used to complain a lot about his very loud guitar playing in the middle of the night - he lived in a penthouse on top of a large building. So eventually he had enough of it and bought the whole building....now that's style!
aubs1
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
........ You've never heard me sing though... ?
No better time to start than now.......go ahead, record a song, and we will listen ........ ?
Riaan wrote
Neighbours...what a strange lot they can be! They stand in cues for hours and pay hundreds or thousands of rands to go and see U2, but if live entertainment happens right next door, for free, they complain? I just don't get it... ?
LOL...... me neither! ?
AlanRatcliffe
Riaan wrote
Neighbours...what a strange lot they can be! They stand in cues for hours and pay hundreds or thousands of rands to go and see U2, but if live entertainment happens right next door, for free, they complain? I just don't get it... ?
What really gets me are those who buy houses within shouting distance of pubs, clubs or other live music venues and then complain that there is noise. I mean, what do they expect? I've seen a lot of great venues stop doing music or close altogether because of this.
Skywalker
What really gets me are those who buy houses within shouting distance of pubs, clubs or other live music venues and then complain that there is noise. I mean, what do they expect? I've seen a lot of great venues stop doing music or close altogether because of this.
Wasn't that the case with the 3 Arts years ago? Luckilly my studios neighbours in the day are a panelbeater and our super noisy machine shop ? and at night....the crickets. I've only ever had 1 complaint from UNISA over the road but I've taken steps to sort that out.
If I want to jam late at night at home I'll just pop the cans on 8)
AlanRatcliffe
Skywalker wrote
Wasn't that the case with the 3 Arts years ago?
Exactly what I was thinking of. That place had the best damn acoustics in the Cape - I saw Jethro Tull and Heep/Purple there. The Brass Bell in Kalk bay used to be a great venue too (as long as you could take a little sea spray on occasion ?)
Skywalker
Right on.
The 3 Arts was ausum. Also saw Heep and Purple there. That was 1996 wasn't it? Collective Soul were killer there aswell.
FruitarGeek
So just did some more research on the topic, and came across a great South African Law opinionated article.
Good Reading for those interested.
http://www.couzyn.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64%3Aneighbour-law-nuisance-in-the-narrow-sense&catid=2%3Apublications&Itemid=9
Some key points that stand out in general from both this article and my text book is that:
1) “a piece of land must be used in such a way that another person is not prejudiced or burdened by its use”
thus it must be a subjective matter. I see how playing after 12 can cause an issue, as the court will look at that as a factor, cause if you causing your neighbors to become insomniac then yes you are "prejudicing" them.
2) "if the plaintiff is someone who is sensitive and is affected particularly by an activity that would not unduly disturb other, then the plaintiff cannot be considered to be an ordinary person" in which case any action raised cannot succeed.
3) "if the complaint is based on only a trivial inconvenience, then it is unlikely to be reasonable".
so does this mean that there must be some real valid personal suffering on their behalf?
Keira-WitherKay
this is a major issue......... noise complaints...
and lets face it ..... even as muso's we all want our quiet time.........
i know even me a pro muso .....i don't want a loud band practising next to my house anytime of the day ............ ? but if steve newman moved into our complex i would loan him an amp so i could hear every note ....... and funny i also play at home in my lounge with the doors open and even amplified when i work on new material or work on my sound and my neighbours are fine with it but it's acoustic music .......... and thats where the rubber meets the road ....... if your music is pleasant few will ever complain ...unless you practise at unreasobable hours ...........
but goodness me does anyone here wanna listen to a young newbie guitarist ( yes we all been newbies so i'm pointing the finger at myself too 30 yrs ago ) wailing on his/her amp fullbore next door while you trying to meditate or do the crossword ...hehehhe ok me i'd offer him/her free lessons till they get melodic ......... ? or buy him/her an amp plug( headphone amp) as a gift ........
but seriously the other option to consider is make the neighbours part of the band ..either as members if they play or roadies or even that stuffy accountant next door could be the perfect manager ..........
jokes aside..... respect peoples peace and quiet cos in this hectic world we get so little of it ......... and in jhb at least i know of a string of rehearsal spaces that cost peanuts to rent ..think about it i know marshall music woodmead rents space at R90 an hour so 3 hours split between 4/5/6 guys not exactly breaking the bank now is it ...........so this should not even be an issue even if you SA's 'loudest band"
Seventhson
No one has ever complained about my toneless string noise?
I play it loud during the week day as nobody is around at that time near me. So it works out.
ezietsman
I've never had complaints about noise, not even when I was a total n00b (and hence turning the amp up too loud because its 'cool')
These days I find that I don't turn the amp loud enough to be uncomfortably loud and hence it prob won't disturb any neighbours either (and I share a wall with the neighbour).
[deleted]
I don't go for this "I make good music, so nobody can complain" argument. We all have the right not to be forced to listen to anything. I go out of my way to make sure I don't irritate my neighbours. Rehearsal spaces and venues are where volume is appropriate. Musicians don't have special rights.
