Fender 5E3 Deluxe Build

makepeace

Hi guys ?

Within the next few months I'm going to be building a tube amp based on the 5E3 circuit and layout, with a couple of mods.

The pre-amps, phase inverter and power stage will be stock (with a 12AY7 and a 12AX7 in the pre-amp unlike the two 12AX7 in fenders '57 reissue).

My aim is to substitute the single control Fender tone-stack with a two control James stack, and to use a 5Z4 rectifier to start off with (its a cheaper 5Y3 workalike). Due to the James stack, it will probably have a single channel.

James Stack:

For the speaker I plan to use a Celestion G12-K80 (glowing reviews from Alan and Karel) to start off with, with the prospect of upgrading to a Greenback in the future when the budget is bigger ?.

I will be getting the components and speaker from Karel, who has been excellent so far with helping me out (thanks Karel ?).

The cabinet I will be building myself out of laminated meranti or pine plywood board with joists on the insides of the corners (can't be assed with finger jointing..). I'm thinking about a TV/Narrow Panel cross. It'll have the TV front, but with the Narrow Panel width and height and the angled front. Either that or it'll end up as a Narrow Panel. I quite like the aesthetic of the TV, but the functionality of the Narrow Panel (angled speaker does wonders for tone) is tops. I'm afraid that an angled TV might look funny ?. Also thought about a normal TV with an angled speaker board.. Opinions on TV vs Narrow Panel vs TV Panel vs TV angled speaker board? ?

I'm still debating in my mind whether to cover it in Tweed or with one of these nice imitation leather fabrics: http://www.ugfabrics.co.za/swatchBooks/hides/Default.html. I quite like that white alligator pleather :-[.

I would like your guys opinions regarding the traditional tweed vs pleather. I'm quite a purist, and would never.. retro-cover, if you will - an old amp, but seeing as this is my own build, I think it could be a cool touch ?

Grill cloth will be either Mojotone's Gold Striped Oxblood:

or the old brown cloth (used on the TV):

This will depend on what looks good with the ultimatum of the covering material story.

Ok, now for my first objective question ?. Does anybody happen to know, or would anyone be able to measure for me, the inclination of the front of a Fender combo? First prize would be the '57 Deluxe (but I'm sure any angled Fender combo will do). I'm just looking for a rough measurement so I can get designing the cabinet.

Cheers,
Jono

MikeM

Only comment is why the James tonestack?

Why not go for a traditional Fender one and have it switchable so you can go from the typical blackface semi-scooped tone to the raw marshally tweed bite?

Wizard

makepeace wrote: For the speaker I plan to use a Celestion G12-K80 (glowing reviews from Alan and Karel) to start off with, with the prospect of upgrading to a Greenback in the future when the budget is bigger ?.

Ok ... so now I understand why you lost interest in my little Cub stock speaker
?

makepeace

Only comment is why the James tonestack?

Why not go for a traditional Fender one and have it switchable so you can go from the typical blackface semi-scooped tone to the raw marshally tweed bite?

I never really thought about that..

The only hunch that I'm going on re the James is the great things I've read about them on the net, and what I've seen on the duncanamps tonestack modeler. It just seems to be a whole lot more versatile than the stock fender ts..

Ok ... so now I understand why you lost interest in my little Cub stock speaker
Wink

Haha, I can see how it looks like that ?. Wiz I've been weighing up the options over the past few days, ideas ranging between Champs, Deluxes, Princetons, etc, and I've come upon this conclusion, for the moment. I'd definitely like to convert that old tube radio I posted about a few months back into a small amp, for which that cub speaker would be perfect.. Unfortunately the time and budget allowances are limiting.. ☹

MikeM

Do you not perhaps think it's too versatile?

Personally I'd rather go for something that's iconic and does the job well rather than something that can do a couple of extra things in a mediocre manner.

makepeace

Do you not perhaps think it's too versatile?

Funny enough I asked Karel a similar question.. I asked if it would sound sanitary.

Personally I'd rather go for something that's iconic and does the job well rather than something that can do a couple of extra things in a mediocre manner.

Is that the price I will be paying? ???

Whatever sound it does, I definitely want it to do it as well as possible..

Although, I guess ultimately if it doesn't sound to taste, I could swap out the caps and resistors for the original ts.. It's not much extra work.

MikeM

Well not necessarily..

Thing is the James might have a range of great tones etc, but things that are tried and tested like the Vox and Fender tonestacks are almost guaranteed to sound good.

This is your amp and your decision, I'm just offering some guidance. I considered making an all-in-one amp but I realised that you sacrifice too much. So my goal now is to have iconic amps (or clones there of) with very subtle tweaks, i.e reducing hum, tightening up bass etc, that don't affect the tone of the amp.

Consider it that way ? Like I said a BF 3 knob tonestack can be almost COMPLETELY switched out of circut for a more raw tweedy tone, and you can even tweak the mid control (using a 25k instead of 10k pot) to relatively boost mids.

makepeace

I get what you're saying completely..

This is a first for me, and I'm really looking forward to mucking around with the circuit and to learning how everything works. It's not going to hurt to try out the James (*touches wood*), but what I'll do once I've got everything working is I'll try the normal ts, and compare the two. I probably will end up going with your suggestion, 'cause it really sounds like a good idea..

I checked out the BF stack on the duncan modeler and it looks pretty good as regards realistic control of the parameters.. The Marshall and Vox ts' do some funny things though..

MikeM

Sounds like a plan man ?

Looove that Vox tonestack. I need 2 amps in my life, an AC30 and a Blackface Deluxe Reverb.

Besides that the only thing I'd say is perhaps reconsider the rectifier. Heard of an EZ81/6CA4? Runs off the regular heaters (6.3v) so you don't need 2 different lines. They're also cheap, and you can run up to 50uF in the first power filtering stage, which gives you some room to tighten up the amp if you choose to.

Also, consider having a choke wound instead of using the 5k resistor in the power filtering ?

Good luck man
Mike

Gearhead

+1 on the indirectly heated recto, depending on what power tranny you're going for. If you've got an oldie type with 5V, use the 5Z4. If you don't, EZ is the way to go. Different socket though.

singemonkey

Can't tell a tonestack from a flapjackstack, but I'd recommend the Red Armadillo, or the last (off white) Alligator covering with the oxblood cloth. That would look awesome. ?

makepeace

singemonkey wrote: Can't tell a tonestack from a flapjackstack, but I'd recommend the Red Armadillo, or the last (off white) Alligator covering with the oxblood cloth. That would look awesome. ?

Haha that Red Armadillo leather would look very porno.. ? I quite like the colour of the last alligator covering but I prefer the texture of the first one..

Anyone know anything about the front angle? I've checked out the Fender Amp Field Guide and they don't say..

TomCat

My amp build has the later Fender Princeton (AA964) bass + Treble tonestack and I love it.....very musical and classic tone.

+1 on the EZ81 Recto........Same socket as a ECC83/12AX7. It does run quite hot so give it some space on the chassis.

makepeace

Sounds good, do you have a link to the schematic of that TS TC? ?

Is the EZ81 an improvement?

I think that Karel will be supplying the Mojotone Tweed Deluxe power tranny, which has a 5V tap. So unless the EZ81 will be better..

?

Gearhead

The 5Y3 does have more sag, but that is meaningless unless you go PushPull class AB or B. Otherwise, there is not much a recto will do for you. Availability is the next criterion, both are sorta average.

MikeM

Gearhead, isn't the 5E3 push pull? 2x 6v6s, cathode biased.

Gearhead

Oh sorry :-[

MikeM

Hehehe :? You spend too much time studying those Mesa designs ?

Gearhead

I just figured I was too far apart from all you guys with your single ended Fender clones to even consider studying this next variant.... Apologies again.
PUSH PULL IS THE BEST FOR GUITAR. Promise. Good choice. Go for the 5Z4 or 5Y3 you will not regret it. Cathode biasing makes for easier rolling. Best tube sockets are for industrial relays. Leave out standby switch (if it had one) you won't need it. Take lessons in wiring from the Guru, he speaketh truth. Go turret board, it is the Way. Do not get too big coupling caps for tighter bass (but Karel will have told you that). Do not underspend on caps, iron and speakers: they are the ticket to Tone. Solder in discharge/bypass resistor and take it out after the debugging, saves some frying.

Mesa designs keep me humble, it is like putting.

MikeM

Gearhead wrote: I just figured I was too far apart from all you guys with your single ended Fender clones to even consider studying this next variant.... Apologies again.

Do you need a table up there with your high stool? :?

You know I'm planning a Deluxe Reverb build soon - as soon as I stop spending all my money.