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  • Vintage Gibson Fail! - thanks anyway Vic

I've carried this from the amp section becasue its evolved into something else.
see http://www.guitarforum.co.za/amps-speakers-and-valves/imported-vintage-amp-help!/
vic wrote: Lapdawg...have you perhaps checked out this link already ...?

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-HAWIAN-GHITAR-JEAN-DU-PLESSIS-BOERE-ORKES-W0QQAdIdZ219982793

What EH model is that ?
Vic- Let me explain the radio silence. I've been trying to buy this guitar. It is in fact a 1939 EH-150 made at Gibson (not Kalamazo). I went to Caledon to see it on the weekend & took a few photos. The condition is excellent. It has a orginal case, missing a handle. It had a few finger/thumb picks & 2 slides vintage slide bars. I was expecting to close the deal & come home. Took cash - more than enough. The plan was that I would get directions to meet the seller when I arrived in Caledon... I called when I arrived & he insisted on coming to see me in the town.
He wouldn't sell & just gauged me for a price.

I said name the price, I'll pay. He's been stringing me along ever since. I think he's hanging on and playing buyers off against each other. I got a frind to phone & ask what he was seling & he got a different price & different story. He's asking more than you you would pay in the US. He's selling other stuff online. One related item is a vintage Gibson acoustic. He's saying its a J-45 from the early 40's. This could potentially put the price above $20 000 - if it was one of the first. He's shifty & has been cagey about all questions & letting me see it & get serial numbers etc.

If you look on Gumtree don't be mislead - the headstock pic of the Lapsteel is shown with the acoustic ad - fooled me at first.

I think its a Gibson LG-1 from about 1948 - not worth nearly as much & not as nice an instrument (but still OK) - not on my wish list.

I would really like to get my paws on the lap steel. It is a magnificent specimen. I am really, really miffed. I just don't trust this guy and his stories. Ethically I can't buy this way i.e. I question how did this guy got hold of these instruments (& other stuff).
I had a LH Gibson solid body stolen from my palce in Rondebosch in the early 90's. It appeared in a music store on the main road in an adjacent suburb. (I believe that the all the Corts are legit though.) I managed to get it back eventually. It wouldn't be good Karma if did the same backstreet deals.

I'm going to take the cash & buy myself something else... maybe a Weissenborn...
    I was interested in the acoustic. Got no response.
      lapdawg wrote: I've carried this from the amp section becasue its evolved into something else.
      see http://www.guitarforum.co.za/amps-speakers-and-valves/imported-vintage-amp-help!/
      vic wrote: Lapdawg...have you perhaps checked out this link already ...?

      http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-HAWIAN-GHITAR-JEAN-DU-PLESSIS-BOERE-ORKES-W0QQAdIdZ219982793

      What EH model is that ?
      Vic- Let me explain the radio silence. I've been trying to buy this guitar. It is in fact a 1939 EH-150 made at Gibson (not Kalamazo). I went to Caledon to see it on the weekend & took a few photos. The condition is excellent. It has a orginal case, missing a handle. It had a few finger/thumb picks & 2 slides vintage slide bars. I was expecting to close the deal & come home. Took cash - more than enough. The plan was that I would get directions to meet the seller when I arrived in Caledon... I called when I arrived & he insisted on coming to see me in the town.
      He wouldn't sell & just gauged me for a price.

      I said name the price, I'll pay. He's been stringing me along ever since. I think he's hanging on and playing buyers off against each other. I got a frind to phone & ask what he was seling & he got a different price & different story. He's asking more than you you would pay in the US. He's selling other stuff online. One related item is a vintage Gibson acoustic. He's saying its a J-45 from the early 40's. This could potentially put the price above $20 000 - if it was one of the first. He's shifty & has been cagey about all questions & letting me see it & get serial numbers etc.

      If you look on Gumtree don't be mislead - the headstock pic of the Lapsteel is shown with the acoustic ad - fooled me at first.

      I think its a Gibson LG-1 from about 1948 - not worth nearly as much & not as nice an instrument (but still OK) - not on my wish list.

      I would really like to get my paws on the lap steel. It is a magnificent specimen. I am really, really miffed. I just don't trust this guy and his stories. Ethically I can't buy this way i.e. I question how did this guy got hold of these instruments (& other stuff).
      I had a LH Gibson solid body stolen from my palce in Rondebosch in the early 90's. It appeared in a music store on the main road in an adjacent suburb. (I believe that the all the Corts are legit though.) I managed to get it back eventually. It wouldn't be good Karma if did the same backstreet deals.

      I'm going to take the cash & buy myself something else... maybe a Weissenborn...
      Congratulations on posting the single best post I've ever read on any forum that sums up my viewpoint on buying (and selling to be clear). I've done the running around after sellers, done the long drives with a bag full of hard cash with me, pretty much done it all ... and still been messed around and had the "happy" and "fun" sucked out of potentially great deals.
      I've offered friends items of mine they've salivated over for years for prices that are ridiculously low (I get my moods and just think I'd like to make someone's day), and had them want to again come over and fondle the instrument, and check it over and and and ... when they've played it each visit for the last 5 years and know who I am and how I operate and how I respect and maintain my gear. What an insult when they already know the gear, have told me how much they'd love to own it, and then when I offer it to them at a price that would make me think twice about "can this deal be legit" they want to come check it out ... like I'm some sort of druggie looking to sell my brother's collectable for a hit. C'Mon! I'm your friend not some stranger on Gumtree!!

      These things have caused me to become really hard and cold about gear purchasing and selling. If someone won't post or tell me an asking price, I'm out. Simple ... no further negotiation. Tough if I loose out on something, I'm just not going to be anyone's b!tch for a piece of gear. If they make an arrangement re a meeting and don't meet their own time-schedule and don't let me know well in advance if there's a problem, I'm out ... no negotiation.

      I CAN afford what I chase, and I don't mess people around. I expect the same in return. Simple, clean-cut, respectful, decent. I never sh!t on someone's for-sale advert telling them their price is wrong. If I don't like the price, I simply move on. If I make an offer below the asking price, I will qualify why I've done that and share my thought process. If I won't buy it at some inflated price, then neither will anyone else that knows what they're doing. And if the seller is able to get his inflated price from some idiot who has not done their due dilligence, then good luck to them both. I make no effort to be friends as I go, but anyone who knows me, knows that if I like what I see and I want it, I buy it and don't mess them around. I do not tell them I'll buy it and then string them along. As a result, over time I've come to interact with some really nice people who have in fact become friends and regulars at Casa MoJo where the coffee is always good, and the talk is almost always gear ... and nothing has a "do not touch" label on it.

      To sum it up, the old addage of "If it seems too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)" never fails me. When I read those ads for the Gibbos, I already knew who the usual suspects would be that would be chasing them. I didn't like the tone (no pun intended) of the ads and it seemed like the advertiser was going to be playing the field. I was out right from the beginning. I really hope someone gets a shot at those and that they are happy with the outcome, but I'm with you .... ain't gonne be me!

      - MJJJ
        Being interested in the Mastertone banjo, I phoned the person in Caledon after having got no reponse by email.
        According to him the instruments were in Parow/Bellville with the family (thus NOT his property) at the time (guitar, EH and Mastertone banjo)...he could give me NO prices or any other detail.....Eventually , to cut a long story short, he responded by saying the guitar and banjo have been withdrawn from the market AND that the price of the EH was R6000. (not bad for such an instrument)..... Anyway I thought that this may be a good deal for someone like lapdawg who has an interest in these instruments.
        @lapdawg.... sorry to hear about your experience with this guy.
          vic wrote: Being interested in the Mastertone banjo, I phoned the person in Caledon after having got no reponse by email.
          According to him the instruments were in Parow/Bellville with the family (thus NOT his property) at the time (guitar, EH and Mastertone banjo)...he could give me NO prices or any other detail.....Eventually , to cut a long story short, he responded by saying the guitar and banjo have been withdrawn from the market AND that the price of the EH was R6000. (not bad for such an instrument)..... Anyway I thought that this may be a good deal for someone like lapdawg who has an interest in these instruments.
          @lapdawg.... sorry to hear about your experience with this guy.
          If somebody is sitting on a Mastertone banjo they are sitting on big money.

          This has happened before with these banjos. Somebody has one, knows that it's old and must be worth something. Starts fishing around for buyers and THEN finds out what the thing is worth in the USA.

          This may be because they didn't do their homework before advertising. It may be because they just advertised and then Bob of Bob's Bonza Banjos got wind of the deal and called them up and said "do you know I can get you [some large number] in the USA for that?"

          All kinds of things can go on. After BBB has told the owner he will get X dollars and has located a buyer, some other prospective buyer in the USA will uncover the owner in SA and offer a number greater than X, thus gazumping BBB.

          It's a cut throat business with that kind of instrument, and all kinds of gazumping will be going on.

          "Gazumping" is a term from the British property market. I am selling my house. You make me an offer of 1000 pounds (theortical figures for the sake of example). I accept. Then before the transfer is effected somebody else offers me 1100 - so I dump you and take that offer. You have just been gazumped.
            lapdawg wrote: I've carried this from the amp section becasue its evolved into something else.

            Vic- Let me explain the radio silence. I've been trying to buy this guitar. It is in fact a 1939 EH-150 made at Gibson (not Kalamazo). I went to Caledon to see it on the weekend & took a few photos. The condition is excellent. It has a orginal case, missing a handle. It had a few finger/thumb picks & 2 slides vintage slide bars. I was expecting to close the deal & come home. Took cash - more than enough. The plan was that I would get directions to meet the seller when I arrived in Caledon... I called when I arrived & he insisted on coming to see me in the town.
            He wouldn't sell & just gauged me for a price.

            I said name the price, I'll pay. He's been stringing me along ever since. I think he's hanging on and playing buyers off against each other. I got a frind to phone & ask what he was seling & he got a different price & different story. He's asking more than you you would pay in the US. He's selling other stuff online. One related item is a vintage Gibson acoustic. He's saying its a J-45 from the early 40's. This could potentially put the price above $20 000 - if it was one of the first. He's shifty & has been cagey about all questions & letting me see it & get serial numbers etc.

            If you look on Gumtree don't be mislead - the headstock pic of the Lapsteel is shown with the acoustic ad - fooled me at first. I think its a Gibson LG-1 from about 1948 - not worth nearly as much & not as nice an instrument (but still OK) - not on my wish list.

            I would really like to get my paws on the lap steel. It is a magnificent specimen. I am really, really miffed. I just don't trust this guy and his stories. Ethically I can't buy this way i.e. I question how did this guy got hold of these instruments (& other stuff            ).[/quote]



            It looks like a J-45 from about 1947 although the bracing is somewhat of an uncertainty. The Gibson logo which is not very clear in the pic looks like the older type (with a bit of imagination ?)
            Yes, the pics of the headstocks have been switched.
              vic wrote: It looks like a J-45 from about 1947 although the bracing is somewhat of an uncertainty. The Gibson logo which is not very clear in the pic looks like the older type (with a bit of imagination ?)
              Yes, the pics of the headstocks have been switched.
              I could be wrong Vic, but the shape is just not J-45. The curves are different. The edge of the "waist" almost touches the pickguard on this one. The gap is much bigger on the the J-45's. I scratched around found the LG-2 & all the small details match what I can see on the Gumtree.
              Look at this LG-2: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-11861.htm

              I'm banging on because I want readers to be careful with this sale.
                Thanks for the compliment Mojo Jojoe - These are my first forays into hunting for instruments. I take all your points. We're kindred. I don't give cr@p & idonn't take it either.

                I have resolved to same my money, be patient and buy originals/quality from reputable dealers & people who can be vouched for. It costs a lot more, takes lot longer but its worth it.

                I got some slide bars, picks & LH thumbpicks in the post from Elderly Instruments this morning. Those evil people sent a big fat catalogue with my stuff... patience, patience...
                  Really difficult to identify these models from a pic in which the guitar is lying down. We can be sure it's a post-'45 model...has a truss rod with oldish Gibson logo..
                  .. (I think).
                  What worries me a bit is the positioning of the bracing relative to the middle of the soundhole...but again the angle of the guitar in the pic makes it difficult to compare with literature examples. Must say that the guit looks to be in very good condition...perhaps refinished as well ☹

                  LG-1 is a good call.
                    MoJo JoJoe wrote: Casa MoJo where the coffee is always good, and the talk is almost always gear ... and nothing has a "do not touch" label on it.
                    ? Sounds like a good spot.
                    To sum it up, the old addage of "If it seems too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)" never fails me.
                    A mate of mine told me last night he saw a Roland TD20 (he's been after one at a decent price for years) going for R14,000. "Scam, right?" says I. The guy's in bloem, can ship. My buddy says: Great, I've got a guy in bloem who can go and check it out for me. Thereafter, all phone calls, emails ignored.

                    It's astonishing how scammers obviously learn these specialised markets in order to offer something that's fantastic, but just might be real. I doubt more than a percentage of these guys are actually musicians themselves. I suspect a lot are professional con-artists who simply research a specialised field.

                    This guy with the mastertone banjo and the lap steel, and all this whatnot, just doesn't sound like he's on the level. If he knows what these things are, he knows what they're worth. This is the internet age. A mastertone banjo is worth taking a flight to the states to sell - possibly buying the banjo its own seat.
                      singemonkey wrote:
                      MoJo JoJoe wrote: Casa MoJo where the coffee is always good, and the talk is almost always gear ... and nothing has a "do not touch" label on it.
                      ? Sounds like a good spot.
                      I sent you a PM with my mobile no. Feel free to call ahead and pull in anytime you like.
                        singemonkey wrote:
                        MoJo JoJoe wrote: Casa MoJo where the coffee is always good, and the talk is almost always gear ... and nothing has a "do not touch" label on it.
                        ? Sounds like a good spot.
                        To sum it up, the old addage of "If it seems too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)" never fails me.
                        A mate of mine told me last night he saw a Roland TD20 (he's been after one at a decent price for years) going for R14,000. "Scam, right?" says I. The guy's in bloem, can ship. My buddy says: Great, I've got a guy in bloem who can go and check it out for me. Thereafter, all phone calls, emails ignored.

                        It's astonishing how scammers obviously learn these specialised markets in order to offer something that's fantastic, but just might be real. I doubt more than a percentage of these guys are actually musicians themselves. I suspect a lot are professional con-artists who simply research a specialised field.

                        This guy with the mastertone banjo and the lap steel, and all this whatnot, just doesn't sound like he's on the level. If he knows what these things are, he knows what they're worth. This is the internet age. A mastertone banjo is worth taking a flight to the states to sell - possibly buying the banjo its own seat.
                        Only the pre-war Mastertones from what I gather...those with the fancy headstock and nice inlays on the fretboard. The one he's selling goes for around $3000-4000 in the US.
                        This guy also trades in old furniture. ? I personally don't think that this is a scam...he is acting as an agent or something, and he's fishing to get the best possible price... in a not-so-nice manner I may add.
                          4 days later
                          Well...patience often pays off. :?
                          The guy contacted me out of the blue and offered me the acoustic and the Hawaiin. He brought it to my place in Stellenbosch where I could inspect it properly. I turned the EH down only because I have no use for it (it's a great example of an EH)......but I made an offer on the Gibson acoustic which he accepted.
                          It's a 1946 script logo LG-2 with the desireable X-bracing under a spruce top, mahogany back, - sides and -neck, Brazilian rosewood fingerboard and bridge, original frets in excellent condition, intonation also excellent.....the guitar is completely original and untouched, no cracks.... a very good example indeed with original case.
                          I find it very playable...nice warm sound and plenty of volume as well.
                          Just a pity that he messed a few people around ☹
                            Pictures!

                            Congrats. Was it a bargain, a good deal, or just a reasonable buy?
                              singemonkey wrote: Pictures!

                              Congrats. Was it a bargain, a good deal, or just a reasonable buy?
                              Thanks Singe. I 'll post some pics later.
                              I think it was just a very good deal...
                                I have posted a few pics in " YOUR GEAR "
                                  6 days later
                                  vic wrote: Well...patience often pays off. :?
                                  The guy contacted me out of the blue and offered me the acoustic and the Hawaiin. He brought it to my place in Stellenbosch where I could inspect it properly. I turned the EH down only because I have no use for it (it's a great example of an EH)......but I made an offer on the Gibson acoustic which he accepted.
                                  It's a 1946 script logo LG-2 with the desireable X-bracing under a spruce top, mahogany back, - sides and -neck, Brazilian rosewood fingerboard and bridge, original frets in excellent condition, intonation also excellent.....the guitar is completely original and untouched, no cracks.... a very good example indeed with original case.
                                  I find it very playable...nice warm sound and plenty of volume as well.
                                  Just a pity that he messed a few people around ☹

                                  Vic - I'm back from 2 weeks holiday. As a matter of interest, can you remember what he he eventually wanted for the EH-150?
                                    lapdawg wrote:
                                    vic wrote: Well...patience often pays off. :?
                                    The guy contacted me out of the blue and offered me the acoustic and the Hawaiin. He brought it to my place in Stellenbosch where I could inspect it properly. I turned the EH down only because I have no use for it (it's a great example of an EH)......but I made an offer on the Gibson acoustic which he accepted.
                                    It's a 1946 script logo LG-2 with the desireable X-bracing under a spruce top, mahogany back, - sides and -neck, Brazilian rosewood fingerboard and bridge, original frets in excellent condition, intonation also excellent.....the guitar is completely original and untouched, no cracks.... a very good example indeed with original case.
                                    I find it very playable...nice warm sound and plenty of volume as well.
                                    Just a pity that he messed a few people around ☹

                                    Vic - I'm back from 2 weeks holiday. As a matter of interest, can you remember what he he eventually wanted for the EH-150?
                                    Welcome back...! Please PM me.....if you are still interested to buy the EH.
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