The Challenge 09/08/2010

Renesongs · 2010-08-09T19:54:02+00:00

This Weeks challenge from MikeM is A Fresh Take on I, V, vi, IV Another vague challenge this week. The idea is to go outside your comfort zone, play something beyond your usual boundries as creatively as possible. Picked a very commonly used progression that can hopefully be used for any style you'd like to delve into. Ok for those who don't understand Nashville numbers if I is C then V = G, vi = Am and IV = F so I,V,vi, IV is a C G Am F progression as in "Let it Be" or "Streets of London" or "Don't Think Twice That's All-right" and many many more.

Warren

Riaan wrote OK...let's see if I got it... :-[

I understand the bit where a C major scale is used and the I, V, vi and IV are used to get the chords. So one can take any scale, for instance Bb major, and the chords for this particular sequence will be Bb maj, F maj, G minor and D# maj? That's if I played the Bb major scale correctly on my keyboard when figuring out the scale by ear, that is...

And so any major, minor or whatever scale can be used and it will work?

Bb major scale would be - Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A

So I, V, vi, IV and would be:

Bb
F
Gm
Eb (or D#)

So, spot on ?

As for scales, the obvious one would be Bb major. You could also fool around with pentatonics (the minor being easier to use).

The real fun is in the modes though. The obvious modes for this would be:

Bb Ionian - I chord
F Mixolydian - V chord
Gm Aeolian - vi chord
Eb Lydian - IV chord

And you don't have to just use triads. You could do the std 7th chord progression too:

BbMaj7
F7
Gm7
EbMaj7

Or come up with a combo of the two, maybe. Throw in some 9s, or maybe 11s or 13s or the odd augmented chord too.

Riaan

I'm definitely gonna experiment with this, thanks! Maybe I'll one day even be able to figure this out mentally, without having to write the whole scale down, frowning and moving my lips and tapping my foot as I count... ?

Warren

Riaan wrote I'm definitely gonna experiment with this, thanks! Maybe I'll one day even be able to figure this out mentally, without having to write the whole scale down, frowning and moving my lips and tapping my foot as I count... ?

So far I've only found that I can do that for familiar keys, like C major or G major etc. When it's a key I'm not used to playing in I also have to write it down. ?

But it's a great exercise. You know, there are some songs that I just can't sing in their original key, and this knowledge makes transposing simple songs very easy. Pretty rewarding too, since your keyboard player can't look down his nose at you anymore ?

evolucian

Warren wrote The real fun is in the modes though. The obvious modes for this would be:

Bb Ionian - I chord
F Mixolydian - V chord
Gm Aeolian - vi chord
Eb Lydian - IV chord

Sorry Warren... I dont wanna be a stick in the mud here... but yeah, I will be the one. Ignore this... this is not modes. This is playing in a standard key. Modes is an entirely different thing... we need to stop confusing the youngens with this stuff.

The rest was good advice, I know you trying to help... and u doing a good job of it. And its just this part that bugs me... so +1 for the rest ?

And now the rule changed to have to use the progression as is.... bugger... different styles aint a prob... but using the exac prog? No substitutions? I was gonna go all tritone sub and neapolitan on yr ass... oh well

Warren

evolucian wrote
Sorry Warren... I dont wanna be a stick in the mud here... but yeah, I will be the one. Ignore this... this is not modes. This is playing in a standard key. Modes is an entirely different thing... we need to stop confusing the youngens with this stuff.

The rest was good advice, I know you trying to help... and u doing a good job of it. And its just this part that bugs me... so +1 for the rest ?

And now the rule changed to have to use the progression as is.... bugger... different styles aint a prob... but using the exac prog? No substitutions? I was gonna go all tritone sub and neapolitan on yr ass... oh well

I think chord subs would still be fine? I just think that if you change the whole progression to a V-I-vi-IV then, well, is it even the same thing? I could be wrong...

On the modes thing: I don't think it's a bad way to start understanding how the modes relate to the chords? Yes sure, if you stuck all of those I mentioned together on the fretboard at once you would simply be mapping out the major scale fingering for Bb, I agree. Perhaps I should leave these explanations to the pros ?

Bob-Dubery

MikeM wrote Like I said, use your own discretion guys - Bob I think use both, sounds like a cool idea ?

Well somebody's got put a peg in the ground here, otherwise it's going to amount to "play some stuff over some chords". If I "change key" from C to Am in the bridge then I have 6 chords open to me.

I'm going ahead with a piece that's in a single major key and uses ONLY the 1,5, 4 and 6 chords - but not in that order.

Not my usual style? Hey! No fair. I'm in the same boat as Leonard Cohen who once said that he doesn't have chops on the guitar, just a chop singular. So delivering a piece of shred is not an option here.

Squonk

This is a hugely open comp

Should be called "anything goes", because it will be difficult to judge if anyone is within the parameters for the comp. ?

Renesongs

On the modes thing: I don't think it's a bad way to start understanding how the modes relate to the chords? Yes sure, if you stuck all of those I mentioned together on the fretboard at once you would simply be mapping out the major scale fingering for Bb, I agree. Perhaps I should leave these explanations to the pros Cheesy

Sorry Warren I'm with Evo on this one. I have too many startled rabbits that come to me from other "teachers" who believe that they have to change modes everytime there is a chord change. While I agree that this might be the case if you are playing Coltrain's Giant steps but it would put playing a guitar solo to something simple like Knocking on Heavens Door out of reach of all but the most profound guitarists which in itself may not be such a bad thing. ?

Ray

I'm still struggling to understand. up a few posts Riaan asked if this would be ok for minor scales. And Mike didnt seem so sure there. So, if that is the case I am not sure how that works. For one, I dont know the chord sequence will work. In a minor key the chords are different ne? i - v - VI - iv. I can only see this working in a major key. But straighten me out if I am missing it please.

Renesongs

IMhO the i v VI iv is not the same progression as I V vi IV its in fact a misspelled vi iii V ii progression. If I was hell bent turning into a minor but wanted to keep the flavour of the original progression I would use I+5, #V-5, vi, IV in C that would be Caug/ G#dim/ Am/ F ( oh no I've just given away the variant I was going to use) ☹

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