The challenge 07/06/2010 Vote Please

Renesongs · 2010-06-14T22:52:52+00:00

At the mere mention of the word key signature let alone 3/4 has put our less advanced competitors into psycho-neurotic shock. I think it also might of been aided by Bob's assertion that 6/8 is not the same as 3/4 if you count it in 3 sets of 2's This week all our competitors are from the A group so you only get 1 vote each. I haven't listened to Alan's entry yet but I bet it involves some sort of poly-rhythm [quote author=BMU link=action=profile;u=1644 date=1276094445] Nice classy waltz at 200 bpm. And by waltz I obviously mean thrash metal. With some (not too much) shredding because I know X-rated Bob loves shredding so much. http://www.box.net/embed/sblazunrp8pbdxy.swf This challenge reminded me of the 3/4 opening track on In Flames' excellent debut album, song called Moonshield. The opening faux-acoustic piece is a tribute to that, the rest is mine. [/quote] [quote author=X-rated Bob link=action=profile;u=411 date=1276443195] Here's my entry. http://www.box.net/shared/llay3jnxof. It's called "The Slider's Waltz". About 60% done on the Morgan, the rest on the Smoothtalker. Category A please. [/quote] [quote author=Warren link=action=profile;u=2258 date=1276452933] My entry for the week. The comp this week gave me a chance to get going with a song I've been wanting to do for my little girl who just turned 5. :) This will eventually grow into a full length song, but this is the basic idea condensed into a minute. Filename is A-Warren_Fairy_of_Greenstone.mp3 http://www.box.net/shared/0e3gcabl3g [/quote] [quote author=Alan Ratcliffe link=action=profile;u=10 date=1276528351] http://ratcliffe.co.za/music/a_alan_three-four.mp3 OR http://www.box.net/shared/03lt5jqja3 Very quick and very dirty recording... Rhythm is 12-string electric. Lead is the StraTele played with an E-bow (normal for eight bars then harmonic mode until end). Serious processing on E-bow part (more later...). [/quote] [quote author=doc-phil link=action=profile;u=323 date=1276584426] I know I've missed the deadline for submissions for the 3/4 challenge, but I will send you my entry anyway and you can decide what to do with it. I only saw the challenge thread yesterday so I assumed I had until next week. This track is something I recorded a while back... but it combined 3/4 riffs with some standard 4/4 ones. I just cut out the 4/4. I was a bit confused about what was mentioned about the 3/4 vs 6/8 thing, so I'm not sure if I've fallen into that trap! But here it is... one minute of pure metalcore. 2 guitars, 1 drums, 1 bass. http://www.box.net/shared/1ifjphjgqx [/quote] (old forum) Poll Results: 3/4 BMU (A): 5 X-rated Bob (A): 5 Warren (A): 4 Alan Ratcliffe (A): 8 Doc-Phil (A): 3

evolucian

Renesongs wrote Ok I have listened to all the entries again One entry does seems to slip out of the time signature constaints and went a bit pear shaped however the vote tally quite accurately reflects which one that is. I have had many entries in these challenges that I personally think did not quite fit the mandate or are submitted late or have too many tracks or are too long. I don not even listen to the entries before they are posted because I would then have to recuse myself from entering. I remain objective and do not decide which entries satisfy the topic's criteria. The members who vote for the entries do that job well enough thank you. 8)

Ah... so Alan's was out... makes sense... tsk tsk... *giggle*

Renesongs

Ok the last comment came from Renesongs the competition moderator this one is my own subjective one . The way that I have learned to measure the time signature of any piece of music is by the length of the phrases . So if a phrase covers 6 1/8 beats it is 6/8 you can accent it how you like it still is 6/8. 12/8 is a little more divisive because this usually suggests 2 sets of phrases played simultaneously one resolving in groups of three and another in groups of 4 however the the whole 2 part combination fully resolves every 12 note.

evolucian

I don't know how simple 3/4 is... the way I see it.. you can have 8ths going in your 3/4 which would be the same as 6/8. If you make em 8th triplets it won't change the time to 9/8.

My reasoning for this (and I understand the meaning of the feel difference) is if you have a 4/4... also part of the simple structure... now play 3:2 over each of the 2 beats... its still 4/4... but it confuses people into a 6/8 and even a waltz... but the 4/4 is quite evident on sheet but is tricky for the ear... forget the awesomeness of polyrhythms for a sec (as zappa made em so wonderfully inaccessable... along with Virgil Donati the freak).

I just find it hard to really tell the difference between 6/8 and 3/4 despite the waltz issue in 3/4 which is the definite pulse happening on one. But getting back to 4/4 and the shifting of accents... the shift won't suggest a real change in the signature but it will alter the feel...

Holy crap... I confused myself here...

But someone will figure out what I said. We could also make a polymajiggy in 3/4 by... lets say... 10:3 ... good luck to anyone knowing its 3/4 without looking at the score...

guitarboy2828

K, I am obviously not skilled enough to hear what you guys are talking about, because I just heard some kiff songs! ?

Could we possibly cut and paste some of these comments into a "lessons" column and elaborate on it? I know I would really benefit from a good lesson on this topic with possible examples from youtube or just songs. Or maybe even some links to good online lessons.. ?

evolucian

guitarboy2828 wrote K, I am obviously not skilled enough to hear what you guys are talking about, because I just heard some kiff songs! ?

Could we possibly cut and paste some of these comments into a "lessons" column and elaborate on it? I know I would really benefit from a good lesson on this topic with possible examples from youtube or just songs. Or maybe even some links to good online lessons.. ?

Only for the brave... though I'm sure its on the site already... http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html

The others will have to respond to the time sig stuff... or I can plonk the wiki in here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature

Renesongs

+1 http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html great article Time signature alone doesn't tell you enough about the genre you want Words like waltz, tango, polka shuffle, barrel house, tango, swing, up tempo, mazurka, bolero, convey a genre better. Bob you should have held your ground at waltz and not let the 6/8 in the door by giving Hotel California or HOTRS as examples.

doc-phil

I'm guessing my entry fell foul of the 3/4 rule ? I really didn't intend to bend the rules. All I know is that when I tabbed it in guitar pro the riffs fit into 3/4 bars. I don't know enough about time signatures to realise that something I tabbed in 3/4 really isnt in 3/4 at all. So my bad!

Conrad

@Doc Phil: I think this piece is the most underrated if the votes are anything to go by. Great precision and quite creative. Metal loses a lot of power when not precise.

@Alan: I love this. Very creative and clever and also a lot of precision.

@Bob: How do you get the acoustics recorded at that volume? Seriously...I need advice on this. I like the contrast between the parts. In my opinion a whimsical sound...it seems it is a modern take on vintage American composition. The public bays for an uncle Bob album!

I would love to have a GFSA compilation album. Maybe it would be an idea to release one annually with songs in full length annually?

BMU

This is interesting. So does mine satisfy the 3/4 rule. I think it does but then what do I know. I did very purposefully make it not even nearly resemble a waltz, that's kind of the point. But I *think* it still is 3/4....?

When I heard doc-phil's at first I thought it's not 3/4, then realized if I count fast enough it is grouped in 3s. Does that make it 6/8 then? To me it felt more like 8th note triplets played in a 4/4 framework actually - what does that make the time signature?? (...but again what do I know.) You guys *did* say as long as it can be counted in 3's. I say thumbs-up based on that criterion. ?

Renesongs

@ Doc-Phil - Many Apologies I was trying to play devils advocate here I probably wasn't counting fast enough to pick out the 3/4 or 96/128 :-[
@ BMU - Bob did open the door to 6/8 and other multiples so I guess it's all good 8)
@ Bob which entry(s) do you feel did not conform to the competition mandate let's hear your opinions? I feel like I'm just picking shoelaces out of my teeth at the moment. ☹

StephenG

3/4 or 6/8 or 19h26 or 3-0 to england.. either way, Warren I think your song was brilliant!!

immediately makes me think of Kenny Loggins - Live in RedWood - I gotta believe with a song like that you seen the dvd??

chris77

Had a listen last night and all I can say is Well done to all of you. Bmu and Doc phil, not what I ussually listen to, but I still thought it was great. Wish I could play like that☹ Bob, sweet melody and well played. The slide was a nice addition to an allready great tune. Alan...wow. That was just so cool on so many levels. It must be hard to do so many things on one track without it sounding forced or confusing. Production wise the best of the lot. My vote however goes to Warren. Good stuff big W! I too would like to hear the completed version. I would buy that song and play it to people, I would.

Renesongs

This weeks winner is Alan by about a mile. Alan gets to PM me the Challenge for next week - and I don't want to hear anymore whining about how Alan always sets difficult topics because you guys encourage him by voting for him.

Bob-Dubery

Renesongs wrote @ Doc-Phil - Many Apologies I was trying to play devils advocate here I probably wasn't counting fast enough to pick out the 3/4 or 96/128 :-[
@ BMU - Bob did open the door to 6/8 and other multiples so I guess it's all good 8)
@ Bob which entry(s) do you feel did not conform to the competition mandate let's hear your opinions? I feel like I'm just picking shoelaces out of my teeth at the moment. ☹

As you said, I should have stood firm at 3/4 and not budged from that. Now where I am now I can't replay all the entries, but there was one that was a very fast piece and I can't see how that fitted in with the challenge even if the terms were accepted very liberally. I thought it might be the sheer pace of it that was rendering the time signature less obvious, but I slowed it down in media player and still I couldn't see how it fitted. This may be because my knowledge of musical theory is that deep, but after budging to allow 6/8 I DID stipulate that you had to be able to count each measure in 3s. So...

A bit too late to influence anything now.

I believe that the limits of the challenge should be binding on the voters as well. We should be asking ourselves "does this actually tackle the challenge that was posed?" If not then no matter how well executed the piece is then it shouldn't get a vote.

I can't agree with the points arguing that good intentions and "interpretation" should prevail. If the challenge is blues and I submit a piece of flamenco then I'm not doing what is required, I'm doing what I can do or what I felt like doing - not the same the thing. I haven't accepted the challenge and I haven't stretched myself (or I REALLY don't know what blues is, in which case y'all should educate me).

Bob-Dubery

Conrad wrote
@Bob: How do you get the acoustics recorded at that volume? Seriously...I need advice on this.

I plug my guitars straight into the sound card and record using Audacity. Once they're recorded it's easy to amplify a track or a portion of a track. By default Audacity does not allow clipping (though you can override that) so it's dead easy.

AlanRatcliffe

Thanks all! New topic sent...

Warren

StephenG wrote 3/4 or 6/8 or 19h26 or 3-0 to england.. either way, Warren I think your song was brilliant!!

immediately makes me think of Kenny Loggins - Live in RedWood - I gotta believe with a song like that you seen the dvd??

I have never head of Kenny Loggins ? Although now I find myself very interested indeed, and will be sure to do some surfing tonight...

chris77 wrote My vote however goes to Warren. Good stuff big W! I too would like to hear the completed version. I would buy that song and play it to people, I would.

Thanks Chris!

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I'm working on finishing the song up, and will post the clip when it's done.

@Alan + @Bob on the 6/8 thing:
Oops, my bad. To be honest, I DID always think my piece sounded more like 6/8 than 3/4 to me. However I thought that given the other examples cited in the competition topic, it would be OK. Sorry! Will be a bit stricter on myself going forward.

PS: still learned a lot though, mostly about how to figure out whether something is really 3/4 or not.

[deleted]

You've never heard of Kenny Loggins? ?

Dude... That theme from Top Gun - "Danger Zone"! Nobody wore shoulder pads like K-Log!

Warren

Stratisfear wrote You've never heard of Kenny Loggins? ?

Dude... That theme from Top Gun - "Danger Zone"! Nobody wore shoulder pads like K-Log!

Haha ? I didn't know that was him...

I'm but a glasshoppla...

StephenG

Warren wrote I have never head of Kenny Loggins ? Although now I find myself very interested indeed, and will be sure to do some surfing tonight...

Warren....... you got me crying in my beer here........

kenny loggins wrote a song for his daughter - House at Pooh Corner - which was voted the best "childrens song of all time".......

goggle that song and have a listen... very similar feel and mood to yours...

but certainly his Live at Redwood concert dvd is absolutely amazing to watch... no pop music stuff.. just stunning guitar ballads and the like.. riveting.

« Previous Page