msch997 wrote
The point I was making was not to make a case for a used Gibson R9 to a new Tokia as an alternate value proposition, or in order to denigrate the Tokia as a value proposition. The fact that the Tokia range is great value, great quality is not under debate here at all. What I was trying to show was for those who do hanker after a 1959 reissue with Gibson on the head stock (and there are some of us) and you have +R 30 K available the Gibson R 9 is an option as long as you are 1) Prepared to look abroad, and 2) accept used (there is a good chance of you recovering that money should you at a later stage decide to sell locally). I was merely putting s sticker price to the R9 discussion.
I saw the R 30 K Tokia at Andy's on Saturday. It is the has the most beautiful burst you could hope to see, that guitar is a thing of rare beauty. But I personally would not buy it. I know if I had I would always wonder why I didn't wait a little longer scrape up a little extra cash to get an R9 with Gibson on the head stock, even knowing that the R9 possibly as an instrument in my hands would not be better than the Tokia. I cannot explain it, in everything else ie cars, clothes, TV's etc etc I would buy a "Tokia" but when it comes to guitars ..... Maybe I am a dinosaur, but I am not alone. Maybe its because while growing up the guitarists who took my breath away had Gibson, Fender, Martin and Guild on their head stocks and those brands are wired into my psyche. There is a marketing lesson there somewhere I think ???
That's a very honest summation of your view and you'll find that only a Tokai troll would disagree with you on it. You've stripped of all the angles, implications, and double-speak.
For all I know, the custom shop Gibsons may be marginally better than the premium Tokais (although I've heard few opinions from the many Tokai/VOS Gibson owners to support it). But the point is, if the non-Gibson-branded thing puts you off, and you're willing to spend the extra, that's really great. Vic, on this forum, has a stack of custom shop VOS Gibsons that make me drool - cos they're awesome vintage spec Les Pauls.
Tokais are for people who are ok to buy a replica of a 1950s/'60s Gibson or Fender that says "Tokai" on the headstock. The information that I, and others, are disseminating is to let those people know what they can get out of it - not to make people feel foolish for buying Gibsons. The fact that I, as a owner and fan of their guitars, have problems with Gibson as a company is a separate issue.
If you want a VOS Gibson LP, I'm sure, as many have pointed out, that you can get one for a lot less than Gibson's MSRP and, from everything I've heard about those guitars, you won't be disappointed in the instrument.
