Advice required: normalising mp3s for stage use

Riaan-Combrink

I'm finally gravitating towards using mp3s as backtracks for live performance (as opposed to using midi - played through Calewalk / Sonar - as I'm currently doing).

Problem is that most of the mp3 tracks I've collected tend to play back at varying volume levels - an obvious performance challenge as I don't want to spend the entire gig riding the backtrack slider on the mixer (even worse at those venues where I'm behind the PA speakers and only listening to my stage monitor)!

I've always used a laptop on stage for my midis, so I've also always played mp3s during breaks for background / dance tracks. Been using iTunes for Windows (version 4) for a long time - as I love the user friendly interface. It has a feature that claims to 'normalise' the mp3s you load into a playlist by ensuring they play back at the same volume level. Its usable, but a bit patchy on some mp3s. But I can deal with this during a break, but not if the volume quality of my actual performance is on the line.

Question - is anyone using a particular mp3 player (software, not standalone hardware) on stage that overcomes this problem? Also, which of the mp3 players are the least resource hungry whilst still rendering the necessary functionality (playlist, etc). This is crucial on stage, as you want the leanest possible program to avoid dropout or other performance issues. Mediaplayer seems a bit useless in this regard, whilst VLC looks like it may work (less graphics, etc) but how reliable will it be over four hours? I've had some issues with it whilst loading another song during playback of a current track.

I've come across freeware called MP3Gain - it claims to normalise the volumes WITHOUT re-encoding the mp3. That is crucial - as the bactrack is custom balanced and one doesn't want a program redoing the mp3 structure (which most normalisers apparently do). Anyone have any experience of mp3Gain?
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/01/04/how-to-normalize-your-mp3-volume-levels-the-right-way/
http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/

I've also had a quick test-run with mixing mp3 and midi on stage - which was disastrous. The playback levels between my mp3 program and Cakewalk were not only vastly different but the whole dynamic of the sound changed as I moved between the two systems. So I'll probably just have to convert those midis I wish to retain to wav-files. Which brings the next issue - how would something like mp3gain or other normalisers deal with commercially produced bactracks that are in wave-format? To convert them to mp3 simply to normalise would obviously bring about quality loss (40mb to 4mb). This would be exacerbated by going from midi to wav then to mp3 to normalise - or is there a program that can convert midi directly to mp3? I've only seen ones that go from midi to wav.

Any advice on any of the above issues would be appreciated, guys.

Heath

winamp used to be able to save volume and eq settings for different mp3 tracks . might be what you looking for

Riaan-Combrink

Tailon. wrote: winamp used to be able to save volume and eq settings for different mp3 tracks . might be what you looking for

Will check it out - thanks!

I'm downloading the latest versions of all the programs now (itunes is on v9, and I'm using 4 :-[). Will then compare them. Problem is that they're all dsigned now for the modern multimedia experience (music, video, online shopping, syncing, etc) - which make them resource guzzlers of the first order.

Attila

Riaan

I know that when you rescan your library in Windows Media player it has an advanced option which adds volume leveling for Mp3 files

Using volume leveling

Because digital media files are typically created using different volume levels, you may notice that some files sound louder than others when you play them. These volume level differences are frequently apparent when you play a mix of tracks that you have copied from different CDs.

Volume leveling, also known as normalization, is the process of automatically increasing or decreasing the average volume of a file to a specified level when it is played back. The goal of volume leveling is to make all files play at roughly the same volume level so you do not have to adjust the volume level manually for each file. In order for the Player to adjust the volume level of files automatically during playback, the Player must first analyze each file and then add a volume leveling value to it.

The Player adds volume leveling values to Windows Media files or MP3 files when you:

Copy tracks from an audio CD to Media Library.
Copy files from Media Library to an audio CD. The resulting audio CD is volume-leveled automatically.
Play a file on your computer from start to finish without interruption (for example, without pausing playback, fast-forwarding, rewinding, or seeking). Volume leveling values are not added to read-only files or to streaming media files.
Add files to Media Library by searching your computer and you select the Add volume leveling values for all files check box.
Note that the volume leveling feature does not alter the original volume level of files. It only temporarily adjusts their volume levels during playback when the feature is turned on.

Because previous versions of the Player did not add volume leveling values to files, you may have files on your computer that do not contain these values. You can add these values by selecting the Add volume leveling values for all files check box in the Add To Media Library By Searching Computer dialog box.

You can tell if a file contains a volume leveling value by using the Crossfading and Auto Volume Leveling settings in the Enhancements pane. When you play a file and auto volume leveling is turned on, one of two messages appears: "Volume leveling applied to current media" or "Volume leveling not available for current media." The former indicates that the file contains a volume leveling value, while the latter indicates that the file does not contain a volume leveling value.

Gareth

Firstly I don't use mp3s or midi on-stage apart from an ipod clone for background music, but if I were in your shoes I would probably use winamp for mp3 playback it has a slew of plugins, maybe even a type of normalise.

For converting midi to mp3 I would use your existing sonar/cakewalk setup and if it can't render direct to mp3 I would render the WAV files at the desired levels then use LAME ( a small DOS program) to convert them to mp3, or use REAPER to do this in one step (midi -> mp3), REAPER will also require LAME for the mp3 bit of the task but saves you venturing into DOS ?

The difference between a WAV file and an mp3 in a live situation I really wouldn't bother about.

my 2c hope it helps.

Riaan-Combrink

Thanks for the input guys!

inflames

I use MediaMonkey and it works great!

Riaan-Combrink

inflames wrote: I use MediaMonkey and it works great!

Never heard of it - will have a look! Thanks. ?

Heath

Media monkey is a great program use it to sync my none ipod mp3 player

AlanRatcliffe

Media Monkey is cool, but can be a bit of a resource hog. Normalising in most MP3 programs is not destructive, it's applied on the fly. Media Monkey can scan a directory beforehand and save the required level settings without editing and re-encoding the file.

I usually convert wav to MP3 with Sound Forge (also lets me do things like set up batch jobs which trim, normalise and encode a whole directory of wav files), but the old Winamp V2.54 does a great job with the addition of the Lame Output plugin (and is quite light on resources).

VLC is a great program - that's what I use for all my media playback these days (audio and video), but I'm not sure if it can normalise between tracks (when I listen to music I like to hear it the way it was intended).

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: VLC is a great program - that's what I use for all my media playback these days (audio and video), but I'm not sure if it can normalise between tracks (when I listen to music I like to hear it the way it was intended).

I love VLC too. I downloaded the most recent addition and it lists a normaliser add-on. I'm not sure how to load it into the program though.

Gearhead

I was going to recommend AudioGrabber, but it seems it's been taken offline ☹

AlanRatcliffe

Riaan C wrote: I love VLC too. I downloaded the most recent addition and it lists a normaliser add-on. I'm not sure how to load it into the program though.

Just looked. It's under Tools : Preferences : Audio : Effects : Volume normaliser

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Riaan C wrote: I love VLC too. I downloaded the most recent addition and it lists a normaliser add-on. I'm not sure how to load it into the program though.
Just looked. It's under Tools : Preferences : Audio : Effects : Volume normaliser

Hi Alan

Sorry to be such a dweeb :-[. I saw it there, but don't know how to add it to the player. If its listed there, does that mean its already active and operational, or is there something I must do to make it 'active'? I'm a bit dof with these things ?

Mo-Facta

The problem with this process is that it requires RMS (loudness) detection and averaging.

The best way I've found to accomplish this is with Wavelab and it's the only way I've found to get accurate loudness normalizing results. It's done with the "Meta Normalizer" in the montage window.

If you've got a Steinberg dongle you can download a fully functional demo version of Wavelab 7 from their website. If you get it, post back and I'll advise you on how to do it.

Cheers ?

Riaan-Combrink

Mo Facta wrote: If you've got a Steinberg dongle you can download a fully functional version of Wavelab 7 from their website. If you get it, post back and I'll advise you on how to do it.

OK, I'll try to get it. Thanks!