Music Connection. All the guitar I bought from them got a basic setup before I took it out of the store. Most of the guitars on their floor are also setup.

+1 to cdee , i have had the same experience

But does a setup include adjusting the action for the individual? If so how the hell would they know who is gonna buy it? Arent there some other player specific aspects?

IMO

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.
If the guitar doesn't come setup from the factory, then how does the manufacturer know if the guitar can ever be setup correctly?

Sorry but I've had too many experiences where a very good guitar tech couldn't setup a guitar correctly, not because he didn't have the skills or knowledge, but because the guitar passed through the factories QC, and shouldn't have...it was built wrong to begin with.

Brentcgp wrote: Andy Mcgibbons

True, you won't find a badly setup guitar hanging on Andy's wall.

Tokai SA wrote: IMO

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.
If the guitar doesn't come setup from the factory, then how does the manufacturer know if the guitar can ever be setup correctly?

Sorry but I've had too many experiences where a very good guitar tech couldn't setup a guitar correctly, not because he didn't have the skills or knowledge, but because the guitar passed through the factories QC, and shouldn't have...it was built wrong to begin with.

I agree and maybe, by putting pressure on the stores, they can put pressure on the manufacturers, and we can get stuff happening. Sure it won't happen overnight, it could take 10 years, but isn't that worth fighting for? Isn't that worth dyin... Heheh maybe not but it's worth the effort of this thread ?

Just some general points without actually mentioning names

1) Some stores will expend more effort on new guitars than 2nd hand guitars
2) Some stores will expend more effort on the brands they have a stake in than the brands they don't.
3) Some stores will do a rudimentary setup if they judge it's necessary before putting the guitar on display, then tell you to bring it back to them with a list of concerns after you've played it for a while.

The flip side of this is that the educated buyer is at an advantage. You should, for example, know how to check the neck relief to see if the reason it's so hard to play is that the truss rod needs an adjustment.

Tokai SA wrote: IMO

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.
If the guitar doesn't come setup from the factory, then how does the manufacturer know if the guitar can ever be setup correctly?

Sure. But they get banged around in transit, go through temperature and humidity changes. They can be properly set up in the factory and still be out of whack when they get to the other end.

Ray wrote: But does a setup include adjusting the action for the individual? If so how the hell would they know who is gonna buy it? Arent there some other player specific aspects?

There are personal preferences, but these are not that big a deal. The difference between a "low" and a "high" action is not that great in terms of millimeters. If a guitar is decently set up to start off with you'd be able to play it and know that it's OK (or not) but you'd like the action a little higher or a little lower.

X-rated Bob wrote: Sure. But they get banged around in transit, go through temperature and humidity changes. They can be properly set up in the factory and still be out of whack when they get to the other end.

Then I say we need to squeeze them both for better service. Manufacturers and stores.

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.

I agree. Some stores have a guy that is actually just there, cause it is the only job he could get during the school holidays. ?

X-rated Bob wrote: Just some general points without actually mentioning names

1) Some stores will expend more effort on new guitars than 2nd hand guitars
2) Some stores will expend more effort on the brands they have a stake in than the brands they don't.
3) Some stores will do a rudimentary setup if they judge it's necessary before putting the guitar on display, then tell you to bring it back to them with a list of concerns after you've played it for a while.

4) If you are hell bent on getting the cheapest possible deal then that's what you'll get.

Norio wrote:

Tokai SA wrote: IMO

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.
If the guitar doesn't come setup from the factory, then how does the manufacturer know if the guitar can ever be setup correctly?

Sorry but I've had too many experiences where a very good guitar tech couldn't setup a guitar correctly, not because he didn't have the skills or knowledge, but because the guitar passed through the factories QC, and shouldn't have...it was built wrong to begin with.

I agree and maybe, by putting pressure on the stores, they can put pressure on the manufacturers, and we can get stuff happening. Sure it won't happen overnight, it could take 10 years, but isn't that worth fighting for? Isn't that worth dyin... Heheh maybe not but it's worth the effort of this thread ?

The rules restrict me from further comment. ?

But I agree, put pressure on the stores, insist that they only hang guitars on their walls if they are 'perfectly' setup....LMAO... ?

X-rated Bob wrote:

Ray wrote: But does a setup include adjusting the action for the individual? If so how the hell would they know who is gonna buy it? Arent there some other player specific aspects?

There are personal preferences, but these are not that big a deal. The difference between a "low" and a "high" action is not that great in terms of millimeters. If a guitar is decently set up to start off with you'd be able to play it and know that it's OK (or not) but you'd like the action a little higher or a little lower.

And you gonna change the string gauge and intonation. Yes, the basics will be there. A while back there was a thread discussing what a setup involves. I took a few extracts (listed below) and it seems to me that there might be some specifics. Anyway, you may well walk into a really good store that everyone likes and take the guitar home and something isnt lekker. then you post here and say that there was no setup and the factory is the dang and so is the store. Adn the next guy walks in and says the opposite. On some other forums I've seen that so much (especially with Guitar Center). Noone agrees that the store is good and noone agrees that the store is bad.

Gearhead
Let's start off by saying what is meant to be taken away by setting up the guit and explaining these phenomena a bit:
- fret buzz (one or more strings rattle over one or more frets in one or more fretting positions);
- note-outs (when bending, a string does not sustain because of fret buzz);
- too high or too low action (partlypersonal preference);
- intonation problems (note is sharp or flat when fretted, restricted to one string or fret but sometimes in whole regions of the fretboard);
- tuning problems (friction causing stored tension in a string so it changes pitch after tuning, creeping strings detune over time etc.);
- tremolo's not returning to pitch after use;
- string breaking problems (sharp bends make this happen);
- string imbalance (some strings sound louder than others);
- stratitis (magnetism of pickups stops strings from vibrating freely);
- string position issues (strings do not sit in an arc making some harder to strike, or strings run close to the side of the fret board, etc.);
- sharp edges around the playing area such as in fret ends, bridge sides, bridge adjustment screws, knobbies etc.;
- wiring and electronic stuff like hum, scratchy pots, microphonic pups, intermittent contact, tone loss and so forth.

Just by the sheer size of this list (some will argue some things are not part of a setup, to me this is down to the quality of your tech) you can see that it would take too long to answer your question completely - whole books have been written on the topic.

In the narrow sense of the word it comes down to the things directly related to the string/fret interaction: the frets must be level at no load plus the neck angle, truss rod, nut and bridge action and intonation adjustment must be set right.

Alan Ratcliffe
Action (both nut and bridge), intonation, truss rod adjustment and pickup heights.

Unfortunately, some problems don't show up until you are setting up. For instance an imperfect fret dress may not show up until you start bringing the bridge action down. So first prize is for the guitar to be set up properly before you try it. Otherwise, if you find one you like that you suspect is not setup properly, ask for it to be given a quick setup (truss rod and bridge action) and try it again.

X-rated Bob wrote:

Tokai SA wrote: IMO

The guitar should come setup from the manufacturer....no need for the stores guitar tech (if they have one) to do anything to the guitar except hang it on the wall.
If the guitar doesn't come setup from the factory, then how does the manufacturer know if the guitar can ever be setup correctly?

Sure. But they get banged around in transit, go through temperature and humidity changes. They can be properly set up in the factory and still be out of whack when they get to the other end.

Just to clarify, I am talking generally here, not having a go at Lance and the particular guitars that he distributes (which are very well made)

X-rated Bob wrote:

Ray wrote: But does a setup include adjusting the action for the individual? If so how the hell would they know who is gonna buy it? Arent there some other player specific aspects?

There are personal preferences, but these are not that big a deal. The difference between a "low" and a "high" action is not that great in terms of millimeters. If a guitar is decently set up to start off with you'd be able to play it and know that it's OK (or not) but you'd like the action a little higher or a little lower.

100% correct.

Brentcgp wrote: Andy Mcgibbons

+1. Andy is fantastic.

It's true that certain manufacturers (to which TokaiSA is alluding) have a reputation for perfect setup out of the box. But there are still some good companies that don't get this right. I think it's a service that would really benefit a store. When I was even more ignorant than I am now, I would actually think guitars were bad if they didn't play well in the store. I didn't realise that they just needed a setup. I think they'd sell more guitars if they play great when you take them down from the wall.