Orchestration

evolucian

Really didn't know where to put this... so its got a home here.

Anyone know anything about orchestration? Without referring me to the Samuel Adler book with a hefty 660 page price tag... can anyone give me a few tips and pointers please?

I'm mostly looking for a few do's and don'ts regarding the arranging... I'm missing a few things and I can't work out what it is... so all help will be appreciated

PeteM

Don't quite understand your need EVO. Are you looking for a publication on arrangement or are you trying to solve a particular problem? If so, what is it?

PeteM

A publication I use for reference is "The Professional Arranger Composer" by Russell Garcia. I bought it in the early 70's for the princely sum of R5.50 - Dated perhaps, but still my trusty bible. Don't know if its still in print.

reference
http://www.colemanzone.com/Time_Machine_Project/r_garcia.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Garcia_%28composer%29

evolucian

I'm looking for a shortcut into which instrument is best for a particular part. This book is hectic and its going to take forever to learn just one aspect that I'm looking for now.

I know arranging for an orchestra takes a lot of listening and practice... yeah, I'm still new to it.

I have this piece I'm working on at the moment. Something is missing and I can't work out what it is.

It starts off softly with a contrabassoon laying the bassline and flutes/clarinets giving the intro flavouring...

The verse I need to create a 1/4 note triplet rhythm... the first of each triplet is a bass note followed by trebs on the other two. I'm struggling to find a smooth instrument to give the bassline without the punchiness offered by the brass. The chord stabs I'm thinking warm violas... top melody will be some flute or piccolo. But the sound, overall is missing something and I can't work out what it may be... Maybe I have to add a middle voice somewhere... I'm stuck and consulting this book is going to be a nightmare of 300 pages dealing with instrumentation... skimming doesn't help balls, lol...

Maybe I'll just have to wait it out and see if something sparks somewhere and another instrument may be suited for a particular voice.... crikey... this is hard

PeteM

evolucian wrote:
I'm struggling to find a smooth instrument to give the bassline without the punchiness offered by the brass.

Have you thought about French Horn - it will complement the woodwinds.

evolucian

I have a copy of that too... almost flaking away, lol... but its a good book... definitely not finished it yet.

I think my problem may be that I am skimming through to find something and then using it as I go on. Maybe I should just read these books before doing anything. But I'm impatient... sigh... wanna write this stuff now cos my head is exploding with all these ideas and movements.

Yeah, the french horn is beautiful... I must check the range of it before I put it in... don't wanna accidently write it and a proper sample won't be able to play it.

PeteM

evolucian wrote:

Yeah, the french horn is beautiful... I must check the range of it before I put it in... don't wanna accidently write it and a proper sample won't be able to play it.

It's got the widest range next to the piano

Manfred-Klose

got a sample we can listen to?

would be good if you could get differrent opinions on what instrument to put in and why.

evolucian

OOOOOOOOH... thanks Pete ?...

Yesterdays piece is missing something too... It does need a melody somewhere or something... could I please ask you to take a listen Pete? I really want it to work and no one around me does this stuff... ☹

PeteM

evolucian wrote: OOOOOOOOH... thanks Pete ?...

Yesterdays piece is missing something too... It does need a melody somewhere or something... could I please ask you to take a listen Pete? I really want it to work and no one around me does this stuff... ☹

Where's the link?

evolucian

this is yesterdays... unfinished, inmixed... I'm stuck on which instruments to use at the end which starts the next section...

http://www.box.net/shared/2n912s9d5i

Any advice would be appreciated

PeteM

evolucian wrote: this is yesterdays... unfinished, inmixed... I'm stuck on which instruments to use at the end which starts the next section...

http://www.box.net/shared/2n912s9d5i

Any advice would be appreciated

Difficult to maker a suggestion without knowing what's coming. If you're building to bigger punchier brass section, then trombones might lead you in nicely. Conversely if you are going to stay in the same vein, then pizzicato strings might do it for you.

evolucian

Whats coming will be a cascading waterfall of arpeggios/scale lines similar in mind to vivaldi's winter.. its about the closest comparison to something I can make... although mine will be shite compared to vivaldi, lol.

Thanks Pete... u been a great help... I'll try the french horn on the new one... and this one I'll try the trombones for the climax leading thru redemption...

Thanks Pete ?

P.S... was this piece ok? I know its dark though... going to aim for light at the end

PeteM

evolucian wrote:
Thanks Pete ?was this piece ok? I know its dark though... going to aim for light at the end

Yeah, it is dark, but that's your intention and you captured it - and yeah it does need to resolve IMHO, either to a darker climax or to the lighter mood you're suggesting - a feeling of hope? Sounds good. You're obviously going to build dynamics and widen the palette in the mix - have fun. 8)

PeteM

Hey EVO - How did you go with the orchestration of your two pieces? Did the French horns and 'bones work? I would like to hear them if they did.

evolucian

Hey Pete... nothing progressed since the post and that night... I ...uhmmm... fell into a lapse of depression and haven't written squat since...

Gave it a listen just now and quite frankly I forgot where I was going with it... sigh

PeteM

evolucian wrote: Hey Pete... nothing progressed since the post and that night... I ...uhmmm... fell into a lapse of depression and haven't written squat since...

Gave it a listen just now and quite frankly I forgot where I was going with it... sigh

It happens ☹

evolucian

I'm looking for some better samples too... without paying anything... no luck so far, lol

Renesongs

My cheap and dirty trick to orchestration is

1. first get a map of the ranges of all the instruments of the orchestra If you cant find one PM me your email I made a nice graphic spreadsheet of all range a while ago

2. Orchestral pieces normal contain 4 or fewer parts of harmony at one time so compose all your parts on a single instrument with a full orchestral range - a piano will do that for you. A neat little trick is to think of each harmony part as a separate melody in different ranges and times Start with 1 melody build a second then a third and so on. repeat melodies in different octaves

3. Now that you have your composition start farming it out to the different parts of the orchestra. There are a whole lot fewer choices to be made know the range limitations of each instrument. Even where several instruments overlap in a range remember there are only a few noises that orchestras make namely strings, woodwind, brass and percussion.

4. Strings are everywhere in the orchestral range so it is best to start with them and add woodwind to warm them up a bit like a chorus pedal and brass to harden the sound like your fuzz pedal. Percussion is usually used sparingly in an orchestra to punctuate things a bit.

That's my WIKI on orchestration

PeteM

Good one Rene. 8)