New to performing live

WantzChas

I have a friend that is an aspiring singer and wants to perform live. What is the minimum equipment one has to acquire to serve the minimal needs? Speakers, monitors, mics etc. I have downloaded the Turnkey Christmas Specials Excel file. Anything on there worth checking out?

Thanks in advance.

Riaan-Combrink

There really isn't an easy answer to this based on the info supplied. There are too many variables.

Is he going to sing with a band or solo? If with a band, he'll probably need no equipment at first. If solo, he'll need some kind of a basic PA - definitely as a minimum perhaps a powered mixer, two speakers, a mic and some kind of source of backing-music (and cabling). A monitor can be worked around based on speaker placement at first if on a budget.

Irrespective, any singer would want to build on the basics. A good vocal mike (Shure SM58 or similar) as a minimum, good mic leads (three minimum) and in the long run, his own monitor (which can be passive if he's playing with a band,but maybe a small Laney CX110 powered monitor for a solo monitor to avoid having an extra amp as a solo artist).

These are just some ideas to jumpstart the conversation, but we'll really need to know more about his present level and how he intends taking this forward - ie what format, what type of venues, etc.

My advice would be to get a good microphone and cables to start with, and hook up with a band. That way he can hone his chops and equipment knowledge, and think of solo stuff once he has got the experience and knowledge. That way the band (which could of course be another guitarist or duo with their own backing) will supply the PA at first. This way he'll figure out incrementally what equipment he'll need later. But make use of the Christmas specials and start with the best vocal mike he can afford (and eventually an extra baseline model as a back-up in case of failure).

WantzChas

Thanks a lot for the message Riaan.

He is a solo singer, just singing not playing guitar or anything. Anything else I need to clarify?

Riaan C wrote: These are just some ideas to jumpstart the conversation, but we'll really need to know more about his present level and how he intends taking this forward - ie what format, what type of venues, etc.

He is going to sing at holiday resorts during the festive holidays, ATKV Hartenbos I know of, and weddings.

Riaan-Combrink

WantzChas wrote: He is going to sing at holiday resorts during the festive holidays, ATKV Hartenbos I know of, and weddings.

The ATKV type thing is usually a bill with a number of artists on the same stage on the same day or consecutive days. So those would have a PA in place, with backing on CDs. He'll probably not need to take anything along. Important that he check with the agent or whoever made the booking - I'd be most surprised if he needs to take anything except his backing tracks (usually on CD-format for these things).

When he does weddings, well then his on his own. Most (99%) of wedding venues will not have a PA available. So he'll have to build up a small PA. 'Small" is relative here, because I have a fairly good PA for my duo and we sometimes battle to output enough at big wedding venues (like wine farms, etc). But he basically has only two options here: a power amp, speakers and mixing desk, or a powered mixer (combined amp and mixer) and speakers. Budget wise, and because there'll be no instruments and pedals, etc, the latter option is probably better. But it will be more limited than the former. And, of course, he'll need to connect something to play his tracks (CD or DVD player or laptop - I've even seen guys use an IPOD or high-end cellphone).

Important that he find a powered mixer that also includes some basic FX for the vocals. Again, one is more likely to find this in the separate mixer option.

So there are pros and cons. Depends on budget and where one aims to take it. But for weddings, etc he'll definitely need the best vocal mic he can afford - and Xmas is the right time to score a deal on a primary and backup microphone. Good place to start, even if he won't need it for Hartenbos.

WantzChas

So for now it's a mic, powered mixer/power amp + mixer, speakers.

Can you make any product specific recommendations worth to check out? We'll be hitting some stores tomorrow and by having recommendations it's much easier to listen to "sales talk".

TomCat

WantzChas wrote: So for now it's a mic, powered mixer/power amp + mixer, speakers.

Can you make any product specific recommendations worth to check out? We'll be hitting some stores tomorrow and by having recommendations it's much easier to listen to "sales talk".

It all boils down to how much he is prepared to spend.

I'm a little reluctant to say what is recommended as what I might consider as a minimum might be way out of his league.

However, what Riaan has said is right on the button. Probable the most cost effective route will be the powered mixer/loudspeaker route.

Soundcraft make what is called the Gigrack which is a powered mixer with built in effects. I have used a few of these personally and they work very well. Conrad on the forum has one.
http://www.gigrac.com/news/index.html

More premium brands will be Soundcraft, JBL, Yamaha and HK audio. More expensive but worth the money.

If looking at the budget brands then there is Leem and Behringer. Personally I would not look at these seriously but that is only my opinion.

Weddings will be a particular challenge as each venue will be so different with regards to size, indoor/outdoor etc. A minimum requirement will be for the amplifier section to be able to deliver at least about 250W into 8 ohms to manage the majority of venues. Another recommendation is to use a 15" loudspeaker minimum to reproduce enough bass off the backing tracks without the loudspeakers straining too much.

Last thing....try and buy the best that you can afford.

EDIT...Look on gumtree as well...there are often bargains there......

Riaan-Combrink

TomCat wrote: Another recommendation is to use a 15" loudspeaker minimum to reproduce enough bass off the backing tracks without the loudspeakers straining too much.

Absolutely. If you can only afford two speakers, eg, has to be 2 x 15". You can later add a 12" or two, but will probably find yourself wanting to add an 18"/sub. I've watched guys try to play a gig with two 12" speakers - even worse if its one of the budget brands. But speak to stores' pro audio consultants first - I ended replacing my first two Behringer 15" with a brand I'd never heard of - and that was obviously not on my radar screen. I told the consultant I needed better bass response than the Behringers were giving, but couldn't fit a sub into my travelling rig. He pointed me to two 15" that had such a superior bass response that people often don't believe they're both 15" - and this was a brand I didn't know at all.

TomCat wrote: Last thing....try and buy the best that you can afford.

I agree 100%. Some stores will try and punt "live PA packages" from especially brands like Behringer. I have numerous odds and ends of PAs I bought over the years thinking I'll upgrade later. I agree with Tom that you should buy the best you can as early as possible.

That means maybe hanging back a couple of days - asking advice, reading reviews on the net, going to stores, asking guys what they're using at gigs, etc.

Good luck to your friend!

WantzChas

Hi guys. We went to 2 stores in Pretoria and got some quotes on that they said is necessary for starting out.

First off, his budget is at about R12 000, between R10k and R15k still in range though.

Yamaha Stagepass 500 system for R11 995. (This looked the most appealing)
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/pa_systems/stagepas500/index.html

(I don't understand this part on the Wharfedale Pro's all that well since we asked for a mixer to be included in the "bundle", but I don't see or remember any mixers shown to us)

Wharfedale EVPX15P powered speaker @ R4 500 each

Wharfedale EVPX15PB powered bass bins @ R5 650 each

This is a quote we got at another store. They went through a lot more effort, hooking the system up and played music through it. In my opinion it sounded really good.

Citronic 12inch powered by amp speakers x 2 + Citrinoc 20 channel mixer + 2 speaker stands + a mic worth R350 @ R12 200.
They said that when he wants to upgrade he can use the speakers as monitors. This seemed appealing, but the guy at the other shop said Citrinoc is El Shito. Said he has blown 6 monitors. That sounded like El Shito because why would you buy something that blew again? Sales talk.

Anyway what is your take on this? I really appreciate the help so I can help him, which he in turns really appreciates.

Riaan-Combrink

WantzChas wrote: Yamaha Stagepass 500 system for R11 995. (This looked the most appealing)
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/pa_systems/stagepas500/index.html

This is becoming a difficult one, as I'm not familiar with any of these. The Stagepass is exactly the kind of all-in-one system that would be suited to a solo singer with backtracks. Will of course still have to add a microphone.
BUT I'm not to sure this will deliver the power he'll need in the long run - big weddings etc with the two 10" speakers. He'll definitely get acceptable and probably good results in smaller venues. I see this particular system as perfect for a solo guitar and voice in a restaurant, coffee shop etc. It'll be great for that. And obviously also as a PA for seminars etc. Whether it'll carry him for more than a year before he needs more power is debatable. If you have a mixed component type setup you can upgrade your amp or speakers when that happens. Here you're stuck with it. You've got an integrated unit. So I'm not sure this is the one.

WantzChas wrote: (I don't understand this part on the Wharfedale Pro's all that well since we asked for a mixer to be included in the "bundle", but I don't see or remember any mixers shown to us)
Wharfedale EVPX15P powered speaker @ R4 500 each
Wharfedale EVPX15PB powered bass bins @ R5 650 each

No,this makes no sense. You'll blow the whole budget on two speakers - good ones, though. AFAIK you can't connect your mic and tracks directly to it, so you'll need a mixer still.

WantzChas wrote: Citronic 12inch powered by amp speakers x 2 + Citrinoc 20 channel mixer + 2 speaker stands + a mic worth R350 @ R12 200.
They said that when he wants to upgrade he can use the speakers as monitors. This seemed appealing, but the guy at the other shop said Citrinoc is El Shito. Said he has blown 6 monitors. That sounded like El Shito because why would you buy something that blew again? Sales talk.

I don't know Citronic at all. So I can't comment. But a microphone at R350? Any stage / professional entry level microphone is IMO in the R 1 500 minimum range. So maybe that is indicative that it is a very entry level package offering from a generic type manufacturer. I'd be very careful.

So, what now ☹

My feeling is just that with R 12 000 you can do better. You can get a good pair of EVH's or something like that for about 6 or 7k. You just have to look around (pair, not single). Add a powered mixer for another 3 or 4k and a microphone (SM58 type minimum) and you're there.

I know this is not very helpful, but I'm just not too happy with what we've got here ... ?