Why I Would Rather Gouge My Own Eyes Out Than Play An Ibanez

Hollowaxis · 2009-11-14T23:33:05+00:00

Hmmmm. After much consideration & many years of playing (Mostly Fenders), I've come a simple conclusion. I will never, by my own free will or choice, choose to play a guitar made by Ibanez. For a few reasons.... Build quality. Having seen many many RG model electrics I just think they seem inferior? And the two buckers one single coil 'versatility' these things claim seems like a 'Stuff more bits in to fool people' philosophy. As for their high end models. One word. Ugly. And as for who plays them. Weeeelll, that brings me to the Main gripe I have with these things. Image. Image. Ibanez as a brand overall just speaks to me of 'heavy metal' wankery and overblown cock-rock guitarists. When I picture Ibanez I picture uncreative, speed obsessed, non-musical 'bands' making bland & uninteresting noise. (not good noise as one would find being thoughfully constructed by the likes of Sonic Youth, Battles, Mogwai or Slint) but rather terrible noise as you might hear from those mighty twats Vai & Satriani. I picture that self obsessed wanking when I picture Ibanez and it just puts me off. I might consider an entry level semi hollow like one of the Jet Kings as a spare guitar for kicks, but i guess if I really was that way inclined I would just do an epiphone casino or dot. I dunno man. Fenders for me. Some Gibsons, maybe a Rickenbacker. But no no Ibanez. ?

DonovanB

Svenddw wrote Hendrix took the stage at Woodstock. I think he thought the Stratocaster was rubbish too, because he smashed his to pieces and then proceeded to set it on fire.

just before he burned and smashed his guitar he said he wanted to sacrifice something that he loved dearly to show the audience how much he appreciated them being there.

MIKA-the-better-one

AH donovan you have proven it, yes that was MONTERARY POP FESTIVAL!!!!!!!!! NOT bloody woodstock!!!!!!!!!! MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP.......

inflames

@Svenddw

The only reason you’ve seen people do great things on a Squires is because of the greed of Sa’s music shops charging double sometimes triple the RRP

You are missing my point here. I'm defending Fender Strats. I was pointing out that you can take a Squire strat mod some pups and have a stunning guitar.
I know that Squire is not USA Strat, but still Strat is a legend like Gibson, so bashing it is not cool in my books.

The price thing, well just search the forum there are about 10 threads on this topic as Alan said.

Moral of the story: If you are a good enough guitar player you can make any guitar work for you (for the moment)!
If you play a R1000 guitar or a R20,000 guitar, it does not matter if you can play!

My dad always told me, learn to crawl before you run! This is the same with guitars, learn to play the instrument before you buy a R20k guitar.
Expensive guitars don't make you play better, they make you play worse!

When you do think you can play guitar, plug your guitar into a valve amp and fail! That is what I've learn't a few months ago!
I just played 45min a moment ago and realized that I still hit some notes wrong. The valve amp make me realize this, but on the static amp I don't ever realize this!
am I off topic here?

Svenddw

Actually the rickenbacker "the Frying Pan" as far as i know is the worlds oldest solidbody production guitar(designed 1931 went into production1932)

well Alan as to "Fair enough. Kids have always been and will always be influenced by their heroes Keith Richards wanted a Les Paul because Muddy waters played one, Mark Knopfler wanted a Red Strat because Hank Marvin played one. So what? The important thing is they play - they'll make up their own minds later. What guitars do you play and who are your heroes? Any correlation there? Anyway Teles are not unpopular with younger players - they are very big on the indie circuit."

I haven't allowed anyone to influence my choice when it came to buying my guitars. i had the sense to try them before i bought them to see wether a actually liked them. the guitars i own are a Gibson Les Paul Ltd Edition Manhattan Midnight blue, Two Vintages though despite their low cost i perceived to be well made guitars and a fender semi electric. i've had a few others but theft befalls us all.

And as for "Sorry - wrong. The Strat already had a very successful career behind it (Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin, Dick Dale, The Ventures, et.al"

yes many well known artist did use strats at the time, but sales wise it was flopping Hence the decision to discontinue by Fender. A decision that of cause changed once sales to the general public skyrocketed. You are quick to tell me to do research, but have you done any yourself? I’m basing my opinion on documentary on fender that was produced by the bbc if I’m not mistaken.

Now i hear all of you talking about your how great your modern strats are compare to teles. thats great and all and I’m happy you all enjoy your strats, truly. but how many of you have an original 50' or 60's strat the era of which I have been talking about. My issue with the strat is that regardless of how good it is now kids are buying them on the bases of how good its heritage is or better put, how it’s always been a great guitar, which is flawed reasoning.
Also I’ve notices how many of you have rushed to defend you decision to buy strat when I spoke about gullible kids(10 to16 years of age) buying strats not because of a decision of their own. I was not referring to the more discerning guitarist i.e. most of the forum but thanks for the laugh. I’m still chuckling. Hey I suppose if you think of yourself as kids, I’m not going to ruin it for you. Who wants to get old right?lol

Also Alan again i don’t get your comment about Blackie constructed from vintage guitars, you seem to be reiterating my point? do explain massive mark up please, athough there can be no excuse for it anyway. its seems all the strat lovers didn't getthe gist of what i was saying. but i've had a good laugh at how quickly all the "kids" jump to the wrong conclussion. see ya all tomorrow ?

@inflames strats are legends of course, but once again i was refering to its heritate. and as for the price thing, that is the lamest excuse for blatent greed in the guitar stores part don't defend them. they ripping you off and probably laugh at you while they do it. i think the best thing to do is for me to get a friend of mine to ship a whole lot of gear down wait for customs 6 month before you can sell it policy and then put these greedy bastards out of business 8)

DonovanB

I find strats to be very well priced. Squiers as well, you can get a Squier (by Fender) for R1495 new. You pay more for a Crafter copy.

MIKA the better one wrote AH donovan you have proven it, yes that was MONTERARY POP FESTIVAL!!!!!!!!! NOT bloody woodstock!!!!!!!!!! MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP MONTERARY POP.......

Guess who got a DVD for Christmas. 8) That strat he burned was so stunning. swoon.

Funny that if someone played with that sound/rig today and made as much noise as he did we would get chucked out. The standards have certainly been raised somewhat and you have to be very techically proficient to be considered good nowadays.

I would pay to see anyone tell Yngwie that he's a doos for playing a strat.... Or better yet, Steven Seagal...

Renesongs

Hey Svenddw can I try some of that stuff you smoking - evidently it can give one a whole new take on reality 8)

AlanRatcliffe

Svenddw wrote Actually the rickenbacker "the Frying Pan" as far as i know is the worlds oldest solidbody production guitar(designed 1931 went into production1932)

Only if you count lap steel guitars. The Tele was the first "Spanish" electric guitar.

yes many well known artist did use strats at the time, but sales wise it was flopping Hence the decision to discontinue by Fender. A decision that of cause changed once sales to the general public skyrocketed.

From the early '60s CBS/Fender was purposely pushing the Jazzmaster to try and break Gibson's stranglehold on the Jazz market. Similarly they were pushing the Jaguar because of the Surf market and these two guitars took pride of place over the "old" Stratocaster in the catalogues. According to all credible sources (Don Randall, et.al.), discontinuing the Strat was considered briefly in the mid '60s, but the idea was immediately discarded and they were still making and selling new ones when Hendrix came along and reversed their fortunes.

You are quick to tell me to do research, but have you done any yourself? I’m basing my opinion on documentary on fender that was produced by the bbc if I’m not mistaken.

Have I done my research? You have no idea! ?

Now i hear all of you talking about your how great your modern strats are compare to teles. thats great and all and I’m happy you all enjoy your strats, truly. but how many of you have an original 50' or 60's strat the era of which I have been talking about.

I've owned two '60s models and I know a number of members who currently own vintage models.

My issue with the strat is that regardless of how good it is now kids are buying them on the bases of how good its heritage is or better put, how it’s always been a great guitar, which is flawed reasoning.

It has always been a great guitar - like the Tele, bar a few small things it's still basically the same guitar released in 1954. All you have pointed out is that it's not always been popular, which is irrelevant and the same can be said of both the Les Paul (which was actually discontinued for a while) and the Telecaster.

Also I’ve notices how many of you have rushed to defend you decision to buy strat when I spoke about gullible kids(10 to16 years of age) buying strats not because of a decision of their own.

So what exactly is your problem with kids owning Strats? What exactly is wrong with the idea? As new players what criteria should they be using to choose other than what their heroes are playing and what store salespersons are recommending? I've told you why I think the STrat is a good choice for a beginner, but what makes it such a bad choice? The fact that so many people use one? In media the Gibson guitars are far more common (one thing Gibson get right is product placement).

Also Alan again i don’t get your comment about Blackie constructed from vintage guitars, you seem to be reiterating my point?

Just expanding more for MikeM that the guitars were vintage models bought cheaply.

vic

DonovanB wrote
Svenddw wrote
just before he burned and smashed his guitar he said he wanted to sacrifice something that he loved dearly to show the audience how much he appreciated them being there.

Good ol' Mike did the same with a 25 yo KWV bottle of brandy at his 50th...... :-[

MikeM

Svenddw, considering you're so knowledgable, explain the tangible differences between a 1960s Fender strat and a modern squier to me please... I mean call me silly but the decent squiers are made from Alder, 19 frets, 3 pickups, maple necks, etc... Does the craftmanship and aged wood make THAT much of a difference? Are they truly different guitars? I think you're that guy that spent lots of money and has to put other things down to rationalise and validate himself. I play a Squier yes. It's had loads of work done to it - it's still a squier yes, but it's not as far off from a MIA as you make it. Get real man.

vic

MikeM wrote Svenddw, considering you're so knowledgable, explain the tangible differences between a 1960s Fender strat and a modern squier to me please... I mean call me silly but the decent squiers are made from Alder, 19 frets, 3 pickups, maple necks, etc... Does the craftmanship and aged wood make THAT much of a difference? Are they truly different guitars? I think you're that guy that spent lots of money and has to put other things down to rationalise and validate himself. I play a Squier yes. It's had loads of work done to it - it's still a squier yes, but it's not as far off from a MIA as you make it. Get real man.

It would be great to hear from someone who has both a Fender USA Strat and a Squire for a comparison of the two.

[deleted]

Whatever sven said, no matter how antagonising it may have been, was about guitars. I don't believe personal attacks should be condoned or defended. Those are the rules, and everyone should be subject to them.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Svenddw wrote yes many well known artist did use strats at the time, but sales wise it was flopping Hence the decision to discontinue by Fender. A decision that of cause changed once sales to the general public skyrocketed.
From the early '60s CBS/Fender was purposely pushing the Jazzmaster to try and break Gibson's stranglehold on the Jazz market. Similarly they were pushing the Jaguar because of the Surf market and these two guitars took pride of place over the "old" Stratocaster in the catalogues. According to all credible sources (Don Randall, et.al.), discontinuing the Strat was considered briefly in the mid '60s, but the idea was immediately discarded and they were still making and selling new ones when Hendrix came along and reversed their fortunes.

Plus there was that factor that effects many a market. Fashion. Strats had been popular in the UK because of the Hank Marvin connection. Then people started watching to see what those two trend setters Bloomfield and Clapton were playing. So briefly the Telecaster was the thing to have and then Bloomfield and shortly thereafter Clapton started playing old Les Pauls with PAFs and then THAT was what you had to have.

Ironically the Les Paul was out of production. Gibson had lost the sales battle to Fender and canned the expensive Les Paul. They reintroduced the Les Paul in 1968 after it had become fashionable.

Swings and roundabouts.

I hope nobody got suckered into buying the guitar that Gibson gave up on just because it became fashionable in the late 60s. We should be more discerning than that.

singemonkey

This has been a lot of fun. It's really livened things up.

Stratocasters are versatile, easy to play, easy to carry, rugged, have a distinctive look, a distinctive sound (I can recognise them more easily on a recording than I can a Tele), and a distinctive history. I don't know how anything else can be argued. I'm saying that and I don't even own one, or have a pressing desire to.

So if the irritation is that kids want a certain kind of guitar before they known anything about it, of course that's true. Does it mean Stratocasters are a big scam? Please.

Is the issue that they cost a lot in SA retail compared to their "value" internationally. Yes they do. Does that mean anyone seen carrying a strat is a sucker? Please.

Let's not confuse our own tastes with objective deficiencies in the instruments. I don't like super-strats, it doesn't mean I pretend that they're useless guitars that only a fool would play.

It's a good point about choosing the right guitar for you irrespective of brand and image. Not everyone can ignore the image factor, but everyone should be sure they're happy with the instrument they choose based on more than just looks.

Going head to head on guitar history in this forum, you better have some serious chops. A lot of these guys have spent half a lifetime learning about their favourite instruments, and even experiencing the developments first hand. So I wouldn't contest a point based on something I'd seen on a documentary (that needs dramatic sound-bites, and must compress the information into limited space) myself. ?

Svenddw

Well mikey, Why would you want to compare a 60’ strat with a modern squire? They are very different. Usually you compare instruments in the same class (competing brands), price bracket or era/timeframe. I’ve never heard of anyone comparing a 60’ premium product (did they have an entry level product back then?) with a modern mass produced entry level product. It seems pointless. It’s an insult to Abigail Ybarra to say that her hand wound pickups are no better than squires. True she doesn't make all of them but she has been doing it since 54’ meaning that most usa fenders in existence have her handy work in them. As for the wood well I would imagine it does have an effect. After all pickups pick up vibrations and different woods have different densities and compositions, therefore they would have an effect on the sound produced. I could be wrong, but why else would guitar brands invest so time into the selection of different woods for their products. Also technology has changed substantially since then so too has the way things are produced. If you take a tour on the Fender Factory in Arizona you see that a lot of love/dedication goes into the manufacture of their products. Yes squires are good entry level guitars I enjoy my playing on my friends especially since I fix the bridge pickup which now sounds awesome (if I do say so myself)

Yes the Les Paul was discontinued to make way for the Les Paul Mark 2 which was rejected by Les Paul and later became known as the SG(solid Guitar). Then the LP was reinstated in 1968.

About you research Alan. Fenders first electric solid body guitar was the Esquire in 1946. Later they produced a 2 pickup version called the broadcaster. But due gretch having a drum set with the same name, fenders broadcaster was change to telecaster. Going into production in 1949. But who knows man everybody has a different recollection of how things went down. ?

AlanRatcliffe

Things are a bit muddled and memories do contradict each other, granted. However, the earliest known physical examples of the Esquire are two pickup models. Leo wanted two pickups, but Don Randall thought it would be easier to sell the one pickup model. So the single pickup models were the first catalogued and displayed at the trade shows.

To be honest, it's all moot anyway, as the Esquire, Broadcaster, "Nocaster" and Telecaster were all basically the same guitar. ?

Svenddw

True the name changed mostly because of copy right infrignments. but none of fenders guitars ever stayed the same from conception, since leo never played the guitar himself.(i think he only played the clarenet or obo) Anyway, he relied on feedback from musicians/guitarists, so in essence his intruments are a case of designed by musicians for musicians, which is a great approach for designing anything. thats how the contour on the back of the strat(and later other guitars from multitudes of brands) came into being. one of the musicians who he gave it to for feedback (anyone know who? i cant remember) complanied that it hurt his ribs during long periods of play. so old man fender filed down the back.

vic

Gee guys---this thread has now really taken off in a different direction....no-one is gougeing out any organs anymore.. ? but thanks for that !

@Sven...you seem to have read a lot of guitar history lately, which is a good thing. Some of us who grew up with those old axes still have a lot of fond memories of those early models. Those were exciting times...especially from '63 onwards. And there were only few models to choose from way back in SA. Today one can pick and choose.....even import if you wish. Talking about entry level guitars. I think today's entry level guitars are better quality than those way back -- at least most of these have truss rods now ! ?

DonovanB

Svenddw wrote one of the musicians who he gave it to for feedback (anyone know who? i cant remember) complanied that it hurt his ribs during long periods of play. so old man fender filed down the back.

I wish someone had done that with the Flying V... it hurts my arm

MIKA-the-better-one

There is a big differance in a squire and a USA strat, there is a huge differance in my John Mayer and my Deluxe USA strat, you can here the subtle differances in any and every guitar. Squires are not anywhere near the quality of fender, granted there may be some nice squires but its ridicualous to say they are on par or near.

chris77

I own a Squier and MIA strat and can only sum it up by saying the Squier plays better and feels more at home in my hands, while the MIA looks better, is built better and sounds better, or at least I think so. With a massive hardware upgrade the Squier will get close to the MIA. And since it already plays better...well. But will it sound better? Hell, I dont know. Maybe, maybe not.

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