Manfred-Klose
O.k here is the senario.....
Say you may have composed a pretty good symphonic orchestration, is it possible that a symphony in South Africa will play your compostion?
I noticed that symphonies usally plays songs that are 200+years old(Bach,Beethoven,Shcumann,Wagner)
Have Classical composers become lazy?
Maby its is up to metal heads to carry on the legacy of music(Since metal is very closely assosiated with classical music)
let the comments begin..........
Renesongs
I have composed quite a lot of work for orchestra - One of my pieces "Knock-Turn-Blu" was planned to be performed by the CTSO but they went bankrupt while I was furiously writing out the scores ???.
Symphony Orchestras are an expensive and unpredictable animals that run more on political lines than musical ones. For a fraction of the cost you can purchase a good collection of sampled orchestral instruments and compose your symphony on that. An electronic orchestra will always obey your musical wishes, don't demand overtime pay after 5pm, don't cough, shuffle there feet or read the newspaper while performing your work. And hey maybe after 200 years a human orchestra will disdain to play your work but it probably won't sound anything like you intended it to ?
Secondly playing Harmonic Minor and Diminished arpeggios at high speed while setting your guitar on fire is only vaguely related to composing classical music in that both activities main purpose is to draw chicks ?
Manfred-Klose
I'm using some orchestral plugins, just was wondering if it is possible.
Great words rene, "Chicks dig it" is a prase i like to use.
Wessel
I think it is still possible to get your orchestrations played if study at an university that has an Orchestra . If you study at Stellenbos most probaply.And you could just well get noticed by someone from an bigger orchestra. I am thinking about studying there....for this and other purposes.
Im not married but does it still matter if chicks dig it when you are , If not live is then over ?
Manfred-Klose
Well take the Homo Sapiens for example back in the day about 1 million years B.C. , Basically to be the leader of the tribe they had impress everyone, especially the ladies............until oneday someone invented something that is known today as a musical instrument.
That's a pretty lame story but who cares, Chicks dig it!!!! no matter what.
Wessel
Some Black metal bands like Dimmu Bogir have orchesteral tracks that is full on classical compesitions.But most of that is done with plug-ins I think.So start a Black metal band ? if you want your orchesteral pieces to be heard.And then you could get real easy chicks because satan is their master 8)
sepheritoh
Manfred, If you can get an orchestra to perform and record your work, please let me know how you did it. I would love to get somebody to perform and record mine as well.
There are 100's of great composers out there who has never heard their own works performed live.
I am not aware of anybody in this country who do orchestral recordings. In L.A. and London it is a pretty common thing to have orchestras available to perform your works. Symphony works still have some value there. You still have to pay the orchestra to do it, but at least it can be done.
Just calculating the numbers makes my mind spin. To record 3 minutes on average will take about 2 hours orchestra time. (That's the Hollywood standard). You need at least 60 people. Union rates in S.A. is about R1,000 per person per 2 hour session. That means it will cost you about R60,000 for every 3 minutes. A modern symphony is usually about 45 - 60 minutes. Then you need to hire recording engineers, a conductor, scribes et. etc. I'll stop here, but you start to get the image.
Alan Belkin, a great composer in France (a live one) once wrote on the Sounds-on-sounds forum that it is better to have a good virtual rendition of your composition (i.e. with samples) than a bad live performance.
Renesongs
Alan Belkin +1
Frank Zappa did some work with the London Philharmonic. He wrote a commentary of this experience in his autobiography "The Real Frank Zappa". It's well worth a read, draw your own conclusions.
IMO human orchestra's are overrated and are a redundant legacy of music history. I mean why have 32 people on strings and 5 people on brass? Answer brass instruments are louder than stringed ones, so just get a multitude of people playing exactly the same thing on the same instruments - go figure? ??? Possibly the reason why they polish monuments (play dead peoples music) is that a living composer would beat them into coma with a boatswains whistle for getting it wrong ?
Manfred-Klose
I think the SABC studios in joburg has a vacilty to accomadate a orchestra, have seen pictures of it.
But then again think about the people that runs the SABC studio..............problem solved, that is probably why this is never going to happen, maby in next 10 years...............
The only way of modern classical composing is through film sound tracks.
Renesongs
I think the SABC studios in joburg has a vacilty to accomadate a orchestra
I been met a few people who play(ed) in orchestra's and found that there relationship with music to be much the same as a plumbers relationship with sh*t
sepheritoh
Renesongs wrote
I been met a few people who play(ed) in orchestra's and found that there relationship with music to be much the same as a plumbers relationship with sh*t
LOL ? ? ?
I spilled my coffee when I read that!!
AlanRatcliffe
Renesongs wrote
Frank Zappa did some work with the London Philharmonic. He wrote a commentary of this experience in his autobiography "The Real Frank Zappa". It's well worth a read, draw your own conclusions.
Damn, you beat me to it! His keynote address to the music conservatory was also great. Basically he said if the students wanted to get their work performed they would have to wait 'til after they were dead, when no-one had to pay any royalties. He also points out that the reason that the old masters get performed is that the orchestra rarely have to do much practising - they all know the music already. A new composer and composition means a lot more practice time.
I particularly loved the way he used to egg the orchestra on - "my rock band can do it. Can't you?"
Ahh. Uncle Frank... I miss him?
Manfred-Klose
Well not many people know it, but guitar players are taking over the world, think about.........
In 200 years when we have long been dead(The year is 2208), peolpe like Yngwie, hendrix,satch,vai,angelo would be considered musical masters, but they are seen as lazy ass guitar players who drink beer and play guitar the whole day long.
Back in the days when mozart rocked the world(1757-1791) that is basically what he(except for the beer drinking part), he played piano the whole day and composed master symphonies.
The point I'm trying to make is that by the year 2208 most us would be legends to the musicians of that time.
So make sure you have got royalties on your songs, and if you die oneday, then your children and their children can recieve royalty cheques.
Lets not make the same mistake that classical composers made, they were srewed real bad.
We are no differrent from classical composers, instead of a using a 80 piece symphony, it had been narrowed down to 4 bandmenbers(bass,drums,guitar,vocals) and also adding Hi gain amps also contributed alot to the sound of music we have today.
I'm sorry for thinking so far forward in time.
AlanRatcliffe
Actually, Mozart was quite the party animal. ? If you look at the great composers, they were pretty much a cross section of humanity. From the serious (Beethoven) to wild (Mozart) to sickly (Chopin ) to mad/possessed (Paganini) and horny (Haydn) and every point in between. Music was their one common ground.
Manfred-Klose
that is why Rock n roll is no different from classical music.
sepheritoh
Manfred Klose wrote
that is why Rock n roll is no different from classical music.
I have a DVD with some of the "making of" videos on. On one video Ritchie Blackmore compares his Smoke on the Water to Beethoven's 5th symphony. I almost wanted to die laughing when I heard it. There is no way you can compare it. Sure the main theme of the 5th only has 4 notes and Smoke has 5 notes. But surely we can not ignore the fact that the 5th has another million or so notes and there are at least 23 different variations of the theme, with 60 different players playing it. Classical music is much more complicated and sophisticated than rock.
Don't get me wrong. I love rock. I love Blackmore's music. Great fan. Just, don't think that rock is the same as classical - or rather I'd prefer to refer to symphonic music, as classical includes a single instrument piano sonate from Bach (which is as boring as Madonna's music with even less variation).
Renesongs
I was reading a compositional analysis of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the moon (The whole LP). IMO it is at least equally musically brilliant and well conceived as say Beethoven's 5th.
http://www.flowerbedmusic.com/articles/dsotm.htm
Renesongs
a single instrument piano sonate from Bach
If you going to make disparaging remarks about Bach I'm going to have to ask you to step outside ???
When you say Bash I presume you mean JS Bach - who never wrote a piano sonata in his life since they were not fully invented yet, pianos or sonatas.
as boring as Madonna's music with even less variation
Yngwie Malmsteen, ripping up and down Harmonic minor scales and diminished arpeggios kind of does that for me (Rene puts on asbestos suit as he is about to be flamed by the whole form) ?
arjunmenon
Hi Rene,
In Yngwie's favour, his playing in his early days i.e. Alcatrazz and Rising force are really good from the rock/metal perspective. However, his neoclassical playing does get a bit much after a few listens. So, no flame from me...but that was hitting below the belt ?
AlanRatcliffe
Classical music is much more complicated and sophisticated than rock.
What!
Depends on who's doing the classical and who's doing the Rock. Stack Strauss against Queen, King Crimson, Dixie Dregs or Zappa (amongst others) and Strauss doesn't fare well at all. Zappa in particular is thought my many in the classical community (Including luminaries such as Boulez, Nagano, etc.) to be one of the greatest composers of the 20th century.
Beethoven, Bach, Mozart - you're talking the best over hundreds of years. There's no way to tell who will stand a similar test of time (although it won't be Malmsteen, much as I admire his playing). Bach was almost forgotten for years after his death until Mendelssohn discovered his music.
