Tone Suck from pedals?

nick

Not sure if this is in the right section, if not please move it.

I have a small assortment of pedals and my Marshall SS 50w, if I plug straight into the amp I get a nice warmish full sound, if I go through a single pedal (even just the Boss TU-2) the bass is robbed and its much more tinny, quite noticeably so. Whats the work around for this? EQ pedal? Try rather use the effects loop?

The pedals are powered with a 9v 2a 18w power supply so theyre not being underpowered at all, cables are all decent etc. ☹

Bob-Dubery

nick wrote: Not sure if this is in the right section, if not please move it.

I have a small assortment of pedals and my Marshall SS 50w, if I plug straight into the amp I get a nice warmish full sound, if I go through a single pedal (even just the Boss TU-2) the bass is robbed and its much more tinny, quite noticeably so. Whats the work around for this? EQ pedal? Try rather use the effects loop?

The pedals are powered with a 9v 2a 18w power supply so theyre not being underpowered at all, cables are all decent etc. ☹

How many guitars have you got? More to the point, does this happen with the same pedals, amp and leads and a different guitar?

One thing I'd try is replacing elements in the chain one at a time. Try a different guitar. Problem persists? Then swap out one lead and so on. Change things one at a time, no matter how impatient you get, because if you change three things and the problem goes away then you still don't know what the root of the problem was, which piece of equipment was causing it and so it may bite you again in the future.

AlanRatcliffe

Bob's advice is good - first try isolate which pedals are causing it. If it's all of them it's likely your amp or a dud cable.

Also, what pedals are we talking about here? While I don't buy into the "buffered is always bad" school of thought, not all pedals are created equal. For one, Boss tuners are known for their so-so buffers.

TomCat

It looks like none of you pedals have true bypass.

If you do have a true bypass pedal thy that one between the guitar and amp in bypass mode. If the problem persists then you have a faulty cable where the earth is not continuing between the guitar and amp.

This will definitely cause the thin sound you're describing.

If you are getting the same thin sound irrespective of which pedal you use then it's not the pedals causing the problem....its a cable.

You can also try one pedal and go through all your patch cables between the pedal and amp and see if the problem is the same will all your cables or whether only one cable causes the problem.

Gearhead

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Boss tuners are known for their so-so buffers.

They know it themselves, too: my Roland GP-8 has a separate output for a tuner, on the floorboard.

nick

I only own a single electric guitar and 3 cables, Ive tried all 3, same results. Even did it when straight into the TU-2 then out the 'Bypass' port.

I'll test it again in a day or two, I decided to remove half my left index finger with a hacksaw while trying to sort something out in the garage ☹

Bob-Dubery

nick wrote: I only own a single electric guitar and 3 cables, Ive tried all 3, same results. Even did it when straight into the TU-2 then out the 'Bypass' port.

I'll test it again in a day or two, I decided to remove half my left index finger with a hacksaw while trying to sort something out in the garage ☹

When I say "cables" I include the little patch cords that go between the pedals. I assume you have some of those too. One of them going belly up can be enough to cause a problem.

Bob-Dubery

TomCat wrote: It looks like none of you pedals have true bypass.

How can you tell if a pedal is true bypass or not? I know that with my Carl Martin chorus I can plug it into the chain with no batteries in it and now external power supply feeding it and the only problem is that it doesn't actually do very much when I stomp on the buttons. So is that true bypass?

Bob-Dubery

X-rated Bob wrote:
TomCat wrote: It looks like none of you pedals have true bypass.
How can you tell if a pedal is true bypass or not? I know that with my Carl Martin chorus I can plug it into the chain with no batteries in it and now external power supply feeding it and the only problem is that it doesn't actually do very much when I stomp on the buttons. So is that true bypass?

PS: No, I am not going to tell you how it was I found out that if you used that box with no power then the signal just goes straight through...

AlanRatcliffe

nick wrote: I only own a single electric guitar and 3 cables, Ive tried all 3, same results. Even did it when straight into the TU-2 then out the 'Bypass' port.

The bypass of the TU-2 is buffered - that's what we're talking about. Best not to have it in the signal chain, but use an A/B switch to switch it in and out when needed.

X-rated Bob wrote: So is that true bypass?

Not necessarily. It could still have the output of the effect hooked up to the output. True bypass switches both the input and the output. Usually if something is true bypass, they'll state it in the manual.

nick

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
nick wrote: I only own a single electric guitar and 3 cables, Ive tried all 3, same results. Even did it when straight into the TU-2 then out the 'Bypass' port.
The bypass of the TU-2 is buffered - that's what we're talking about. Best not to have it in the signal chain, but use an A/B switch to switch it in and out when needed.

My chorus pedal is stereo out, would running the TU-2 out one of them and normal out to the amp out the other be a better idea?

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: So is that true bypass?
Not necessarily. It could still have the output of the effect hooked up to the output. True bypass switches both the input and the output. Usually if something is true bypass, they'll state it in the manual.

My understanding is that a lot of pedals that are described by the ~~lying varmint scumbag~~ manufacturer as "true bypass" are not actually true bypass, so I was wondering if there was some simple way of checking.

AlanRatcliffe

Not that I know of - I'd probably download the schematic or open it up and have a look how the switch is wired.

Having said that, if the pedal sounds as good bypassed as it does plugging straight into the amp, does it matter if it's true bypass or not? A well-designed buffer made with good quality parts can be as transparent as a cable and helps avoid other problems like noise or sub-standard cables.

Mr-M

Bob, read this if you want to know about True Bypass and its many variations and imitations: http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/bypass.htm

Interesting reading if you have the time and should clear a few things up.

Gearhead

nick wrote: My chorus pedal is stereo out, would running the TU-2 out one of them and normal out to the amp out the other be a better idea?

I would like to know the answer to this one, too; it boils down to whether the pedal mixes the second channel back with the first one when not in stereo. My bet is they run the second output to the first as long as no jack is in the socket.

Try taking the TU-2 out of the chain altogether for now - you can still tune up by unplugging+plugging, main thing is now to find out what's what.

Anyway, it is not a good idea to try to tune up with the chorus on ?

AlanRatcliffe

nick wrote: My chorus pedal is stereo out, would running the TU-2 out one of them and normal out to the amp out the other be a better idea?

Depends on the chorus - some give no signal out of the second output when the pedal is bypassed - and when the chorus is on, the pitch modulation makes tuning impossible. If your chorus gives you a dry signal out of the second output when the pedal is bypassed, it will work though.

toastyrat

Why didn't i know this about the tu-2 before i bought one!

Is there anyway you can mod it or do something to help. (the a/b switch has already been mentioned)

AlanRatcliffe

LOL! Ya think Boss is going to put a big sticker on 'em with the words: "Warnin' - Larks vomit!"? ?

Don't get me wrong: otherwise, they are good tuners (my TU-12H is almost 20 years old and still going strong) ...just don't put 'em in the signal path.

The A/B switch is IMO, the best way to approach it as it also mutes the guitar signal.

toastyrat

I've just found 2 buyers for my tu-2. So long and good riddance!

After doing some research it seems the Korg DT-10 is a good tuner to go for????

nick

toastyrat wrote: I've just found 2 buyers for my tu-2. So long and good riddance!

After doing some research it seems the Korg DT-10 is a good tuner to go for????

All the Boss pedals will probably share similair base circuitry so if you flogging the TU-2 because of tonesuck, get ready to sell the rest ?