CDee
So, I've been battling together with the other band members and the sound guy to get the "on-stage" sound softer. The on-stage sound is so loud that we can hear it loud and clear everywhere in the auditorium. This sounds horrible because it's not the mix we want the people to hear. >☹
I think I might have found the issue is that the drums are loud and thus we need to boost the monitors to hear ourselves. But our drummer is not a loud player, he plays actually very softly (strange I know ?). The fact is that the drums are in the middle of the stage and there are no drum screens or anything.
Will adding a drum screen in front of the drums help with quieting down the sound? What other things can we try to tone it down on stage?
Thanks,
CDee
TomCat
Hi CDee....Is this at your Church?
CDee
Yip, it's in our church. Sorry forgot to mention that. The auditorium is not very big, sits about 300 people...
TomCat
Without having looked at your church I'd say the stage area is probably very live and what is happening is that the uncontrolled sound from instruments, amps and drums is reflecting into the auditorium.
I'm prepared to come through and have a look at some time. PM me your details if you are interested and we can set something up.
CDee
Thanks Tom, you have PM!
?
guitarboy2828
You could also look into perspex screens. In a couple churches i've had a hand in setting up the sound we've ended up using perspex to screen off the drums and then mic them up. It helps control the levels.
But I'm sure Tom will be able to help you out by coming over there. If i was in Jozi I'd happily come out too and try help out.
TomCat
Personally I'm not a fan of drum screens as they usually end up causing phasing problems with drum mics.
However having said that each case needs to be assessed on it's own merits. At our church we opted for acoustic treatment of the stage instead of a screen and the results were fantastic. We still have a live drum sound while the rest of the band can play at normal levels.
I'll take some pics of what we have done and post these ASAP.
guitarboy2828
That'll be cool Tom, i'm interested to see that.
We actually bought an electric drum kit just to try it out at the church I am currently in.. Don't do that, what a waste. Sounded very bad.
I've found screens work, the drummer is a little cut off and has to have his own monitor set up nicely, usually in ear, otherwise he can't hear a thing.
TomCat
Also went the electronic drum route.....DOES NOT WORK........kind of like trying to do a guitar solo with a keyboard...... ??? ???
Soon got rid of that and reverted back to the real thing....... 8) 8)
CDee
Yip, the electronic drums don't work for us either. We don't mic up the drums (We don't have enough channels on our mixer).
CDee
guitarboy2828 wrote:
You could also look into perspex screens. In a couple churches i've had a hand in setting up the sound we've ended up using perspex to screen off the drums and then mic them up. It helps control the levels.
Are these specially made screens I can buy somewhere or will any sort of perspex screen work? We can't mic it up though :-\
TomCat
Hi CDee
I'd hold off looking at any sort of screen at this stage until I've had a look at your stage setup etc.
You might end up spending money on something that might not work in your situation. If a screen ends up being the solution I can help you with the correct design.
Sidecar
My band is currently facing the same issue. But for the sake of our ears. We have found that the smaller clubs tend to run things too loudly (from an audience perspective), and that the drums are generally too loud for the size of the room (which means that our drummer is learning to play softer) but also getting thinner cymbals helps to bring the drums volume down. Generally in smaller clubs you only need to mic up the snare and the kick, the rest comes through reasonably well. A smaller drum kit (with smaller shells) might be a solution as well?
Regarding electronic kits - I've hear them sound just fine as well. But it pretty much depends on the sounds you have available and how easily your drummer copes with it, because i'm sure they dont FEEL that great to play.
AlanRatcliffe
Sidecar wrote:
also getting thinner cymbals helps to bring the drums volume down.
That helps, although it also brings the pitch of the cymbals lower - your drummer may want to get slightly smaller cymbals too to raise the pitch again - i.e. going for thinner 14" (or 15") and 16" crashes instead of 16" & 17".
Generally in smaller clubs you only need to mic up the snare and the kick, the rest comes through reasonably well. A smaller drum kit (with smaller shells) might be a solution as well?
+1. The kick isn't usually a problem though - that's usually the first thing you have to mic up.
Regarding electronic kits - <snip> i'm sure they dont FEEL that great to play.
Look at the models that use real skins or mesh heads - they respond pretty much the same. The dynamics are usually a bit different though - that takes a bit of adjustment. The biggest problem with electronic kits is the appearance - they're just not as rock 'n roll ?.
Gearhead
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
The biggest problem with electronic kits is the appearance - they're just not as rock 'n roll ?.
I'm sure Rick Allen and his fans would not agree - although he does have an excuse ?
AlanRatcliffe
? Lol! Yeah. Although his kit is kind of half and half - partly acoustic with acoustic cymbals and a few electronic drums and extra pedals to make up for his "shortcoming":
I love the fact that if you listen to the newer Def Leppard stuff, the style of drumming hasn't changed.
Some of my favourite drummers use electronics, but in addition to a basic electronic kit: Chad Whackerman, Bill Bruford, Vinnie Colaiuta, et. al.
Heath
easiest way to soften your onstage sound is to killthe drummer ... *duck*
our drummer used to use those damper rings to soften things up a little *he was a really loud player* .
CDee
I got the on-stage sound softer by placing the monitors in more effective positions. This helped a lot.
The next step is for our drummer to once again bring his electronic kit and give it a go. Maybe also use the hybrid type set up of using his acoustic cymbals wit the rest of the electronic kit.
AlanRatcliffe
What about in-ear monitoring? Frees up the need for monitor wedges completely and if someone is overplaying, you mix them louder in their feed and bring the other instruments down, forcing them to back off a little (works in studio cans, but I have no real world experience with live in-ear stuff).
Neps
I've been gigging exclusively with an electronic kit for just over 2 years now. And it's been great. Yes, I don't get the same feel as with an acoustic kit, and yes, my ghosts are gone now, but I've learnt to compensate for those. And playing straight rock, I don't need my fancy jazz tricks actually. You also lower onstage sound by a lot. I was against it at first, but it turned out great. I've come to the conclusion that if you know how to play, you'll be able to play well on an electronic kit. The sounds not the same, but it's also not that much of a difference. (it's a gig, not an arena gig)
As for smaller shells being used.. Nope, wont help. If you play loud, you're going to be loud on any depth of shell.
Playing softer comes with time and practice. And playing loud mostly causes one to loose some of the finer touches. (Unless you are Carter Bauford, who is also actually not that 'loud' drummer)
Smaller & thinner cymbals will cut through a mix much cleaner. And they tend to not go 'musshy' in you in smaller venues. But they do tire out your ears quite quickly. I love my two 16" crashes (diffrent thickness), they do give me the sonic change I'm after. But the big problem always will be the snare & hi-hat.
Snares you can counter by having a shallower snare. It's strikes out sharper, and it's still loud, but it doesn't mesh with the other onstage sounds as much. Hi-hat control is the only way to get them to not overpower ones sound.
Stick type also helps. Playing with 5's has the advantage that you don't break that many. But 7's are actually my prefered size. They are lighter, and you can actually get your drumming 'volume' down a bit with them. You also have quicker hand control with them.
So ask your drummer to try 7's. This also helps with the hi-hats. He'll probably hate them cause he's going to break them. But it'll teach you to play a bit softer, and focus more on getting the art of drumming down.
