dan
hi guys.
needing some help...
I'm looking to buy a fender blues junior amp. was quoted (best price) R10 000 from the local dealer.
on sweetwater these amps are $500. add $120 shipping and 14%VAT and we're looking at around R5600. Am i missing something here? Is there a massive duty on amps? The SARS list of duties seemed to suggest it was duty-free.
an issue is the sweetwater will be amp is set for 110V. Is this easy to correct once it arrives and how would it be done?
Thanks so much!
Dan.
[deleted]
dan wrote
on sweetwater these amps are $500. add $120 shipping and 14%VAT and we're looking at around R5600. Am i missing something here? Is there a massive duty on amps? The SARS list of duties seemed to suggest it was duty-free.
So it says yes, but there is another category that it falls under and that is "luxury" items... Which is nothing less than 30%. The best thing would be to try find out before hand...
I was also under the impression that they where duty free until a importer of a few high end amps told me otherwise... What is considered high-end (or luxury) is up to the customs office...
I would try find out before. But I do believe it is quite hefty. I have been trying to find out so I can bring in a Swart AST, no luck yet. Nobody can put it in black & white for me...
TomCat
Check / negotiate a price with Music Connection in Jozi.
They have a few in stock and might be cheaper that your current price. Chat to Jacques.
Good luck
AlanRatcliffe
There are quite a few factors at play here. Number one, you're looking at the price in country of origin, which is always going to be far cheaper - shorter supply lines, no importer/middleman and in the case of the USA, no sales tax in most states. Don't look at discounted prices either - stores like Sweetwater, MF and GC move a lot of Fender and probably get preferential pricing so they can discount further. A local retailer cannot afford to discount to the same levels - the numbers are just not there. And if you buy from them, the local dealers will never move the numbers needed to bring the price down.
Amps in particular are heavy beasties and cost a fortune to ship. So for an accurate representation of what you should be paying, you should look at Fender prices in the UK/Europe (Thomann lists the Tweed BJ at a Recommended Retail of EUR772). Don't forget to add on VAT at 14%. Euro models will also be the correct voltage for SA, saving you from invalidating the warrantee by having it modified.
Duties, I'm really not sure - the duties on amps with speakers or speaker cabs used to be very stiff, but when I last looked, they were free (Maybe my source is wrong?) Anyone know for sure? Amps might fall under luxury items (I've been bitten by the luxury tax before - with valves), but guitars don't - and their pricing is also skewed. Look at this (all RRP):
Standard Strat - R15K locally vs. EUR630 (+/-R7K)
American Standard Strat - R21K locally vs. EUR1,281 (R14K)
Eric Johnson Signature Strat - R32K locally vs. EUR2.299 (R25K) (and that's an old local price!)
In this case (as with all Fender), the prices are still out of line, IMO. I have queried this with Feedback (the official distributors), but don't have a satisfactory answer. I was told that with most of the more common items, they actually make less profit than their sister company who do Roland/Boss/Cort, et. al.. I originally thought it may be due to the fact that they get their stock from Fender Europe - I presumed that Fender Europe were also making a profit, so that we were in effect paying two middlemen, but apparently when they priced getting stock directly from the US, the prices worked out the same.
Unfortunately, buying direct from the US doesn't often work out with amps because of the weight/power requirements. US stores are not supposed to sell certain brands outside the country to protect global distributors, some do, but many will not risk upsetting a company like Fender.
So I really don't know. It still feels that we are being gouged, but it doesn't appear to be on the SA side AFAICT.
DonovanB
Here's a thought,
Do you think it's worth a community like us taking it up with the distributor?
I doubt we contribute too much to the turnover of these places but if we as GFSA could have an impact on the retail prices of gear it would help more people afford better quality instruments.
AlanRatcliffe
DonovanB wrote
Do you think it's worth a community like us taking it up with the distributor?
Let's get some more opinion and I'll forward the thread to the right people...
MikeM
Hmmm, wouldn't amps fall under electronics?
dan
thanks for all the responses.
MikeM - Logically i would expect amps to fall into: 85.18 (page 938) of:
http://www.sars.gov.za/Tools/Documents/DocumentDownload.asp?FileID=40370
which would suggest it will be duty free. (musical instruments are dealt with in chapter 92 and clearly are free...)
but if the folks at customs can decide it fits into luxury items at a whim that does make life difficult. is it possible to send SARS a description of the amp before it's ordered and get them to clarify where it will fit in writing?
RE putting some collective pressure on the distributor - great thinking. the guy at my music store had no idea why prices of fender amps were so inflated locally - and it does seem to apply to fender amps only, a lot of brands are well placed against global prices - so i'd be interested to hear what the distributor has to say about it.
MikeM
Oh ok I see makes sense, get some ammo!!
[Pirate]AARRRGH Me hearties, we mus team up and give em some anguish about their theivery!![/Pirate]
Wait wait we need to be serious here cause this is a serious matter ?
TomCat
AAAARRRGGHHH.......Good idea Capt'n.
Matt-White
If you're patient enough, you'll find BJuniors second hand, but it does take time. You should find one eventually and can expect to pay the same as a new overseas one.
BTW, Ive got one - theyre brilliant!
Tokai-SA
I know guitars are duty free, stringed instruments..but I'm pretty sure amps aren't.
I doubt you'll ship an amp to SAfrica for $120...I could be wrong, but that sounds way too cheap, IMO.
Interesting, a Blues Junior for R 10,000, but during my divorce when I tried to sell my Rivera Fandango for R 14,000 I couldn't find anyone interested...and the Fandango's a $2000 hand made in California boutique amp, not a $500 Fender. ?
matta
I felt so violated when Bothner's had their BIG sale, I was seriously keen on an HotRod Deluxe, which ended up costing MORE on sale than it did the day before the sale... go figure!
Amps incur a 7% tax on top of the VAT then levied on them... I know as I've bought in a few... and it STILL works out WAY cheaper than what the Fender guys are looking for... and if you know a good courier company it is not implausible to bring it in for $120USD and it is easy enough to swap out the power transformer or mount a straight 230V-115V trafo into the chassis and keep the original one.
I've seriously considered FLYING over to Nashville/New York just to buy up a bunch of amps and fitting in new power trafos and selling them into SA to allow guys a chance to get GREAT amps at affordable prices.
The great deals are actually the old 60's era Fenders, all handmade/handwired and better sounding than most production amps today and they can still be had for a song locally if you keep your eyes peeled... I bought a later Silverface Bassman head today for R1,800... it needs work, thankfully I know a guy who can take care of it.... me ?
Cheers
Matt
AlanRatcliffe
matta wrote
The great deals are actually the old 60's era Fenders, all handmade/handwired and better sounding than most production amps today and they can still be had for a song locally if you keep your eyes peeled...
True. I saw that Bassman - you must have moved quickly ?
I find it strange that the old models are selling so much more cheaply locally than overseas, while the new ones are so expensive locally - the reissue '65 Twin is well over R30K locally (probably more like R40K with the hefty recent Fender price increase), but I'd be lucky to get R10K for my original '65 model. Although the way things are with local new prices, I can see the older stuff going up in price too.
There's a Silverface Pro Reverb (70W, 2x12 master volume model, so it's the less desirable '78-'80 model) on Cape Town Gumtree for R8,500. It's a bit overpriced as they go for $500 - $600 on Ebay, but still far cheaper than you could get anything new for locally. It's been reposted a number of times in the last couple of months, so the owner might be willing to negotiate. Not the most desirable Fender amp, but still better than a kick in the teeth - especially if you want loud and clean.
Tokai-SA
I was offered R 7000 for my 1966 Blackface Vibrolux Reverb locally in Johannesburg.
Original Jensen speakers, GEC KT66 poweramp tubes, Mullard pre amp tubes.
I sent it to a friend in the States, cost me R 2,000.00 to ship it there....then I sold it on a guitar forum in the US for $1,700....worked out to R 14,000.00
Perhaps we need to wake up in South Africa, we're quick (not me )to blow a few hundred thousand on a Mercedes or a BMW, we don't ask the car dealer why the Mercedes is twice the price in SAfrica as it is in Europe, but we wonder why a Blues Junior retails for 10 grand?
[deleted]
Tokai SA wrote
Perhaps we need to wake up in South Africa, we're quick (not me )to blow a few hundred thousand on a Mercedes or a BMW, we don't ask the car dealer why the Mercedes is twice the price in SAfrica as it is in Europe, but we wonder why a Blues Junior retails for 10 grand?
Demand and Supply
They sell 10 times the amount of guitars, 10 times the amount of amps, 20 times the amount of BMWs. They don't price the things to rip us off, they price stuff so it is VIABLE to sell in this country.
That's just how business works. Fender SA obviously has instructions to meet a certain MARGIN on the sales. And they price accordingly... That unfortunately is the cost of business in SA. It won't change
//edit I am sure Fender in SA only have a certain quanitity avaliable of an item to sell, making the supply curve virtually inelastic. This means we dont have a choice but to demand what gets supplied... It sucks :-\
Tokai-SA
Brent
The point I'm trying to make is...why are South Africans so concerned about what they drive, and prepared to pay ridiculous amounts of money for their cars, but refuse to pay for a great guitar or amp? ?
dan
Tokai SA wrote
The point I'm trying to make is...why are South Africans so concerned about what they drive, and prepared to pay ridiculous amounts of money for their cars, but refuse to pay for a great guitar or amp? ?
pretty sure if there was a viable way of importing BMWs at half the price, BMW SA would soon be dropping their prices... this is a very different situation.
I'm going to give the ordering from the states thing a go and i'll let you know how it goes...
[deleted]
Tokai SA wrote
Brent
The point I'm trying to make is...why are South Africans so concerned about what they drive, and prepared to pay ridiculous amounts of money for their cars, but refuse to pay for a great guitar or amp? ?
That I have to agree with you on!! I wish I could get my hands on a Swart AST and a few other amps. I am just not willing to take the risk on the shipping. I got a whopping quote of just under $700 for a AST... No thanks I'll wait till someone has a spare seat on a plane with them ?
@Dan let us know how it comes out
DonovanB
Tokai SA wrote
Brent
The point I'm trying to make is...why are South Africans so concerned about what they drive, and prepared to pay ridiculous amounts of money for their cars, but refuse to pay for a great guitar or amp? ?
That is because there are way more Saffers who drive than who play guitar. Supply and demand
