MIKA-the-better-one
I talked about it in a thread earlier this week. Lots of questions on how the scene is here in the USA. What defines it and makes it different and unique. Got me thinking about the scene back in SA when I used to play there.
I was hyper critical of the scene in South Africa while I played in it, and to an extent still hold those opinions (maybe less harshly)
So I wanted to contrast scenes, post some bands from my area here now and you post some bands and opinions, Get some discussion perhaps passionately backed moving. Not intended to be "mine is better than yours."
So what should be noted though is I am in an area in the mid to south Florida, kind of similar to eastern cape, and the city is about as big as a JHB suburb such as edenvale maybe a bit bigger.
1) First thing I noticed is bands here really vary. And are not afraid to really do stuff their way. Where as People in SA every second band was a Alter Bridge or In Flames repro (not that we dont have that here buuuut they get made fun of far sooner.)
This also goes for Indie music as well as most genres, music seems a little fresher and honest, and surprising.
2) Bands simply do it!!! In Sa it was assumed hard if not impossible to tour, where as here, kids just get in a van and go for two weeks. As scary or unethical it is.
3)Most important to me, bands control the scene NOT venues, not soundmen, not promoters. BANDS do what they want, its their art. In SA every show felt like a gift or a favor, here bands organize their own if venues are awkward, they stand outside and flyer the shit of the streets. They fight tooth and nail to get people at their show. And the shit that goes down if two shows are booked same night in the same area is wild. And Rarely happens. Bands talk and plan.
4) and last, there is no fancy big rock n roll dream that we all have hookers and green rooms, it exists but not as cool. I used to think that it was not a real show unless my amp was mic'd and "looked" pro. Now shows are whatever you want and DIY is cooler.
Here are a few bands who are big from my neck of the woods.
RedFeather, great band, tours maybe 3 times a year. All work day jobs.
Acid trip galore for 60s fans. These guys got really big and then split into a new band about to hit the road. They were doing 2 month long tours out a school bus and eating Ramen for weeks. Mixed in with LOTS of DRUGS
This guy is probably the biggest on the list, was on tour with JAck white, and he used to come to my bands shows and hang out and talk about being in a band. One day he just did and within no time someone saw him playing a tiny show and here he is now.
On tour we hang out with him in his New Orleans home and he parties HAard.
This band got huge in the DIY scene originally with no drummer, they would purposly be annoying and threatening just because they did not care. Anyhow word grew and they started demanding huge amounts. Now making around $15 000 a show. Notoriously weird, singer carries a knife onstage often out. Reminds me of the SMiths... Oh and they do all their own videos and recording.
Maybe the funnest band to see live, and all work day jobs, but are currently also touring and on Warped Tour.
I cant stand this net band but again doing big stuff and really dont give a fuck. I tried to tell them to play 30 minutes once at our album launch 1.30 later they were still going.
This one is my bands e drummer, incredibly weird band but they tour a bunch of festivals and really have no regard for if people want to see them or not, they play mainly house shows and also make a decent amount from just donations. They get arrested on tour yet just dont stop.
I could add more, but I think what its meant to show is these bands are good, but more so they just do it. They dont over think it, they just do it. There is no way to tell them what to do, or make them want anything other than their scene. That said some of these bands hate each other and my band (maybe not my band ? but everyone pushed everyone else to play better.
Danny-B
Really interesting read Mike.
I was in a band last year that got some exposure, a number one single and a tour or two. But I left the band for some of the reasons you outlined: the band was too conservative, even though two of us were trained in jazz and hella keen to experiment; some guys were just too keen to seem like rockstars; and fuck man the music was just so boring, typically gangs of ballet pop rock stuff.
The music scene in SA is very conservative, and I'd say one of the biggest problems is the structural barriers to people of colour in the 'rock' scene. To me the coolest music is happening away from all the big stations like 5 - theres thor rixon, spoek mathambo, fantasma, okmalumkoolkat. It would be great if all the 'white' musicians actually realised that this country's rock legacy is a colonial one, and very lame. It's a problem because all the venues and capital cater to the rock bands vs the new and fresh music coming out of SA. But this a symptom of the greater structural wealth issues in SA.
This is the band I was in:
https://soundcloud.com/mickey_burns
this is the band we toured and worked with:
https://soundcloud.com/gangsofballet
and this is some SA stuff that I actually like:
https://soundcloud.com/fantasmaofficial
https://soundcloud.com/okmalumkoolkat
V8
Awesome post Mika, enjoyed your insights into the scene you be in on that side of the pond - read of of the year (for me anyways) on GFSA. Thanks!
Redfeather - that clip featuring them live on radio - super cool. I can really get into that mix of electronica & rock.
One thing that struck me about all the clips you posted - quality. Of performance, recording & presentation - serious effort & passion involved to present a product. Something I don't see a hellofva lot in SA...maybe except the parlortones :roflmao:
briang-telkomsa-net
Great share Mika - thanks for the effort of commenting on and finding the links!
As with most things in USA people seem to strive for excellence, not to impress, but because that is what they want. As noted by V8 quality of recordings and performance is high.
Guys that I liked were Jitters (I see what you mean by experimental! - their society seems to look for and encourage it compared to RSA where we mostly like the familiar) and Benjamin Booker.
My daughter did an internship in Palm Beach a year ago and the impression that she brought back is that most things "just seem to work" and people sort their stuff out amongst each other - as your noting of there being no double bookings and the bands talk to each other certainly indicates.
Once again - great post!
MIKA-the-better-one
Thanks guys, I was half pressed on creating the post. Like I said it was not to sound like "look how awesome everything is here" but rather just to display some things I think of as nurturing to a scene of music.
We have the same issues here, such as 1) PAY to PLAY: however we also have much more options with the creation of a scene that is not reliant on those venues to say no.
As with any scene you have bands who put out subpar recordings and videos, all in all prodect thats half tried. Luckily here though the listener is very invlolved and motivated to seek out the best they can, and rarely do they put up with "good enough" which is the end KILLS music. POINT TO NOTE: The film "WHiplash" came out this year, check that out... its about a drummer who is pushed harder than ever in a jazz band. I might make another post on it.
There is always somewhere to play here if you put the work in. and further the better you get and smarter decisions you make the more money you can actually obtain playing the music you want. .
Huge Benefit to the US is we have more places to go and play, cities and cities. However breaking into them and their respective scenes can be hard and take years. For Example Atlanta, I can tell you the venues and guys who run them, give you bands who you want to play with but only after 2 years of labouring and making sure they remember me. All for a city that to me is a great Thursday night stop on a two week tour.
I think if I was in SA I would be equally frustrated because its assumed that all the quality industry recources are geared to a very elite 1% which in no way nurtures a music scene.
Not to name names but I dont really want to see another band that does Radio Friendly slightly Indiefied Pop, crafted for Radio, and SA has a few who have been there to long. And in turn for having the prestige and top spot these bands rarely take chances or divert off their creative path for years if not ever.
I guess in a way, havng so little a scene as small bands you really can craft your own, in the fashoin you want. All the quality sessions we do here are guys like you and I that decided to make a youtube channel, get a camera and a sound board and just go, and they grow into some pretty big names.
These guys when we did this two years back were just two students in a shared house, we played a show in Tallahassee that night and slept on the floor in their house woke up and did this. Now they are videographers for Wilco on tour.
BTW Thor Rion was Top Notch I loved that and gave it a post over here on FB
MIKA-the-better-one
Gawsh I just looked up Gangs of Ballet.... Put them in the Parlatones box for me..... and incase we dont know what that box is called, its "I play music that I call trendy to trick your mom and I repeat this process for 5 years till I get bored" ?
MIKA-the-better-one
I keep adding to the list here, but heres a good example. I played my first show in the USA with these guys. They are a couple that bought a camper and toured straight for almost a year and a half across all the USA. Living where they could and playing everything and everywhere, and you can see their music is a bit different, but they own it.
warrenpridgeon
Cool posts dude. I always dig to hear what is going on out there.
I'm really keen to form a band to just jam. I don't care about making it. I don't enjoy the type of music that "makes it" in SA. I just really really really really enjoy music and being involved in playing it. If I could play music as my living that would be EPIC. But I'll just stick to writing code and jamming on the side. lol.
Charlie4
If South Africa had the full market of +50 million people it would be different. The other question is spending power?
Language is and will probably always be the wall to break down. If our barrier of 11 languages can be bridged through music. Etc. That would be great. And provide a boost, NOT a saving grace.
Mika, most guys in SA play with supbar gear, esPecially the metal crowd, so the question is whether that effects the quality of music being made? More responsive gear make your playing more responsive? Very simplistic way of looking at it, but it's perhaps more, tonally, pleasing on the ears. A Hot Rod Deluxe retails, these days, for 14k! You are well aware what gear you could buy in the States for 11-12k.
I guess we are pretty conservative and that reflects in our, primarily western, music making - predictable. The risk is not taken as most know going outside of mainstream into a further niche market is often futile. Hence the lack of general badassery that bands like F*koffPolisiekar displayed.
It's great to hear your perspective.
MIKA-the-better-one
I am very lucky this side to have great gear, its definitely more common to have good gear this side. While I lived in Sa though I managed to pickup a vo ac50 with 212 cab for R4000 used. Or a Bassman ten for R6000 or a twin for around R7000. While its still money and not easy I think its almost a commitment to ones craft. I always say I could play the same music this side with half the pedalboard one mexican guitar and a peavey classic 30. Which is my books are around the bottom tier of good tube amps. I have been blown away by bands doing great music on a very basic budget (one that at times I have to learn to not scoff at)
So in conclusion I think the "subpar" gear is less of a cause of Subpar music but more an indicator to ones Faith in their own craft.
Granted this is all easily said and done. Peoples lifelines in the USA are far greater than SA where there is far less employment and call it safety nets for failed musicians.
I still Work a day job as do most of the guys in bands I know. We are not rich by any means. I think that allows the Art to be better almost though. I don't go to my band to be told or feel like I have to do something, I go their to do Exactly what I want and perhaps that helps.
SO yeah having a job is the best thing if you want to keep the integrity of your band.
singemonkey
Yeah. Not hard to get better sound with a Pacifica and a cub12 and some home-made or budget effects pedals if you have taste, vs the board of boutique pedals, a PRS, and a Mesa-Boogie if you have none.
Edit: Well, not just taste. Experience and consciously developing your ear too. But I've definitely heard people create better sound with budget gear than some tone-deaf people do with superb gear. Superb gear isn't bad. It's just that it doesn't substitute for crap taste.
singemonkey
Probably a few more musos to choose from in the States though too, right? It can be tricky finding people here who'll go with a grand vision. So you end up trying to compromise. And the wild edges of the music gets tamed. "Well, if that's really why you got into playing in bands, I guess we can cover U2's Where the Streets Have No Name *sighs*"
MIKA-the-better-one
Eactly one could say you have a larger pool of muso's here. And I see it being true, at the same time we have a pretty diverse people group down here in Tampa. Cuban music is massive, as is the covers scene in bars, and wanna be blues guys, its also the birth place of black metal or speed metal one of those.
Where in SA I found the idea of starting a band was "hey I wanna start a band that sounds like this" Here the attitude is "Hey I have some music that I play it kind of sounds like this" The difference also being nobody here waits for a full band or a refined archetypal 4 piece band. Many of them just start on their own and add.
Two eamples from earlier Benjamin Booker had a drummer only and occasionally, yet he just played like he was in a full band, Merhcandise also drum machine forever bass and guitar.
If I moved back to SA I would hardly bother with starting a band, but I would start to play music any chance I got. Probably with a drum machine, looper and an Acoustc, and some crazy pedals. Not to say I would have gigs, probably not, but I would just play anywhere and probably get kicked out.
Getting kicked out is another thing we muso's hold as "OUR" fault, or atleast I did, I felt obligated to play within the constraints of the venue. But then I got thinking thats like telling a Painter to paint with less blue when you have known him for 5 minutes. The band I have played in now has literally been kicked out of two venues full on angry. I myself recently at a solo gig was thrown out and threatened mid set for flat out refusing the manager, granted some contracts made sure I was payed my full fee of $350. Venues either have to learn to book carefully or loosen up.
LooneyAtTheGate
MIKA the better one wrote:
Where in SA I found the idea of starting a band was "hey I wanna start a band that sounds like this" Here the attitude is "Hey I have some music that I play it kind of sounds like this"
Very interesting reading, Mika.
Jayhell
Great read. The strange thing is, we all know what is wrong with the SA music industry, but still no one is doing anything about it.
Work together and get people excited about rock music again. If they don't get excited, find the people who are excited.
We are to reliant on every one else. Kyus started as a bunch of guys with a generator in the dessert and they ended up opening for Metallica, not because they aimed for opening for Metallica, but because they aimed to have shows in the desert and attracted people who wanted to jam out in the desert, witch turned out to be everyone for a hundred mile radius.
South Africans like to moan and do nothing about it, it's so sad. Playing in a band and playing shows are not enough. We need a support industry. People who support local music without affiliation to any specific band. People who will re post social media posts, make and hand out flyers, actively invite their friends etc. Unfortunately all the passionate people are in bands and just looking after their own.
If one can start a selfless coalition of dedicated people (in and out of bands) who do more for the coalition then their own and get the same result for their own, you will have a scene...
But I am a hypocrite just for writing this post because I am not doing anything about it either.
MIKA-the-better-one
In the north USA basement shows as well as house and community center shows are super popular. I can imagine suburbs like Benoni and Boksburg, edenvale etc having a go to all ages hangout spot for fridays where bands can play, and you not only have aspiring bands but also promoters, artists, screen printers, producers..... a whole industry bread of the back of informal cool shows.
