Apologies for the nerdy comments I'm about to make, I suppose it can come across as pedantic. Meanwhile I would just like to clarify some of the 'mystery' surrounding the question why valve amplifiers are so darn cool. I would also like to add that my post count is far too high already.

Airguitar wrote: The real difference between the sound from a tube amp vs. a solid state one has to do with the way the amp responds to transients, ie. fast changes in the wave form or signal being amplified.

Not entirely true, but often it is one of the factors. Transient response of most valve amps is faster and therefore causing less listening fatigue, since they tend to need less negative feedback than most ss amps. There are a couple of high-end sand amps with little or no feedback, the sound of which (not surprisingly) gets compared to valve amp sound. Transient intermodulation distortion (as the errors in amplifying with lots of negative feedback are called) however is something completely different from harmonic distortion occurring in valve amps when overdriven.

Airguitar wrote: Valves tend to compress naturally when they are subject to overdriving. This also happens when they are being fed an already overdriven signal, although not as much.

Correct but note that compression only occurs when overdriven because if the input amplitude goes up, the output amplitude cannot anymore.

Airguitar wrote: When a valve is overdriven, its inherent natural compression tends to round out the sharp, clipped edges of the waveform, making this clipping sound more musical and less brittle and harsh.

...actually it is not compression that does this, it is the nonlinearity of the valve characteristic close to maximum/minimum current levels.

Airguitar wrote: Valves {..} have a relatively slow response to very sudden chnges in amplitude.

Eh.. No. The speed at which an amplifier stage responds to changes in the input signal is called rise time; valves stages tent to have faster rise times than sand stages. If you distinguish between amplitude (the average distance between nothing and your signal, measured over a bit of time) and the signal level itself at a certain point in time, the difference becomes clear: the valve stage is at the point of being overdriven no longer able to let the output voltage change follow the input voltage change. This is ONLY at the min/max current through the valve. It is not slow, rather it runs out of current. Because it does not pick up the linear amplification until the input signal goes below the clipping point, the amplitude is not as it should be and that we call compression. If the valve stage were just slow, it would be able to respond at no compression at a later point in time, but it will never. See?

psyx wrote: The point is, most (if not all) valve amps need to be cranked to get nice power amp distortion.

So if you want distortion at low volumes, get a 1/4W or smaller valve amp.

psyx wrote: This can however be achieved at lower volumes using a attenuator or some other voodoo.

No voodoo, when unable or unwilling to buy flea watt valve amp this is done with either power scaling, ppimv master volume controls or 'hotplate' power dissipation. Maybe a combination of these. Not magic.

psyx wrote: This usually means high volumes.

It only means high volumes when people do not LISTEN when those in the know say that 1/4W is a lot for bedroom use already.

psyx wrote:
Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc...

Ouch, how we disagree. Please at least don't call a Kemper a modeller since it is a profiler. Then, let it be said that only if you are willing to compromise a lot on response, can a modeller be of any use for practice.

Interesting discussion going here with a coupla misunderstandings methinks.

Once you have tinnitus, the chances are pretty good that the inner ear damage to the cilia (fine hairs) in the cochlea are permanent. In my opinion it does not matter what type of amp you use, the damage was done.
The way forward is to protect the remaining auditory senses by having special in-ear hearing protectors made that is attenuated to say something like 95 decibels. Normal speech is still possible but the higher frequencies and sound waves will be blocked out. With the lower frequencies such as a bass and drums it is advisable (not always possible) to wear a muff which protects the auditory bone behind the ear against low frequency noise transfer.

Rather protect what you have else one may not be able to distinguish between Tube vs SS sound at all.

:sorry: "
Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc... - See more at: http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/tube-vs-ss-which-is-better-for-the-ears/?action=post;num_replies=15#sthash.Y26OynBq.dpuf"

Putting a Kemper in the same boat as a Cube? What's Happening.

Dude whatever amp you choose go to the pharmacy and get a pair of decent plugs.... Protect your ears. Playing guitar is alot of fun.. Not being able to hear what your playing irrelevant of what amp your running.... Not so much fun.

Gearhead wrote:

psyx wrote: The point is, most (if not all) valve amps need to be cranked to get nice power amp distortion.

So if you want distortion at low volumes, get a 1/4W or smaller valve amp.

psyx wrote: This can however be achieved at lower volumes using a attenuator or some other voodoo.

No voodoo, when unable or unwilling to buy flea watt valve amp this is done with either power scaling, ppimv master volume controls or 'hotplate' power dissipation. Maybe a combination of these. Not magic.

psyx wrote: This usually means high volumes.

It only means high volumes when people do not LISTEN when those in the know say that 1/4W is a lot for bedroom use already.

psyx wrote:
Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc...

Ouch, how we disagree. Please at least don't call a Kemper a modeller since it is a profiler. Then, let it be said that only if you are willing to compromise a lot on response, can a modeller be of any use for practice.

beardedmoose wrote: Putting a Kemper in the same boat as a Cube? What's Happening.

Sheesh guys, take it easy!

I know all too well that a Kemper is a whole different animal. I was just using it as an example.

And I know all too well that a modelling amp cannot compare to a real tube amp... I was just listing it as a possible compromise.

Get a Hughes n Kettner Tubemeister, which can scale down to 1Watt for low volume operation. The Orange terror series can go down to 7 watt, but that can still be amazingly loud!

There are excellent options beyond cubes, mustangs et al..

My vote would be something like a yamaha thr10

That and good plugs.. i had mine made at an audiologist and they go with me everywhere.. i also have tinnitus and damage, better late than never. These plugs lower the db without really losing audio quality

Plugs are the way.
Forget the pharmacy, shitty ear plugs are exactly that.

Go to audiologist, have them take a casting of your ear canal and make you a set of attenuated ear plugs.
These things are not only incredibly comfortable, but they also fine tune them to reduce particular frequencies (as was mentioned, particularly the high ones). It's almost like a having a small mixing desk in your head, that cuts any shrill shrieks, and allows the bass to pop through a bit more.

I bought a set of Protec Ear moulded ear plugs around 8 years ago. Including my visit to the audiologist to take a casting of my ear canal, it cost me R750, I believe.

Best R750 I've ever spent. I would recommend a pair to every single person on this forum.

...Just ask someone with permanent ear damage whether they'd pay R750 to have full hearing again...This is the kind of thing you need to buy before your ears get damaged, because once they are, there is no fixing them

http://www.protecear.co.za/

Squonk wrote:

Dinky88 wrote: ??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? Insert what and hang what?
This isnt a joke to me.
Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.

Sorry man. I wasn't poking fun at your condition but rather posting what came in to my head when I saw the heading!

its cool man sorry man ive had a hard weak with my ears and it made it extremely painfull for me to listen to music or play guitar and i was just in a bad mood, cant help it man, tinnitus messes you up like that, sorry man.

studmissile wrote: "More pleasing to the ear" has to do with tone rather than your medical condition.
Keep the ear plugs in and regardless of ss or tube, take care of your ears.

Believe me i always wear the plugs man!! There is no other option.

proze wrote: If you're sensitive to high frequencies and large amplitude, I wouldn't imagine the source of the waveform matters much as long as those criteria are taken into account?

Out of interest, what happened?

I played guitar without pluggs for a few years with a drummer, the one day we had a jam and at the end of the day my ears felt kinda weird, like a pain in it, next morning it was gone so I picked up a pair of drumsticks to jam some drums as I used to play drums now and then any way, I hit the crash and my head exploded, ears was buzzing and screaching like crazy, i had unbearable pain, could stand my own voice. Whent to the doctor and he gave me steroids so that i dont loose my hearing, been almost 4 years now since and i still have very loud ringing and buzzing in my ears and pain, the pain goes away sometimes, usually gets worse if im stressed or depressed and if you have this crap going in you get stresses and depressed alot. its their , forever.

Airguitar wrote: The real difference between the sound from a tube amp vs. a solid state one has to do with the way the amp responds to transients, ie. fast changes in the wave form or signal being amplified.
Valves tend to compress naturally when they are subject to overdriving. This also happens when they are being fed an already overdriven signal, although not as much.

Here's a solid state vs. tube amplifier being subjected to overdriving or "Clipping" - so called because it looks like someone took a pair of scissors and "clipped" off the tops of the waveforms.


When a valve is overdriven, its inherent natural compression tends to round out the sharp, clipped edges of the waveform, making this clipping sound more musical and less brittle and harsh.

Valves (The British way of saying "tubes") are natural compressors and have a relatively slow response to very sudden chnges in amplitude.

Now think about how this affects your ears. A sharply clipped waveform at the speaker translates into a very harsh movement of air generated by the speaker compared to when the corners of the clipped wave are made nice and smooth by a tube. All of this results in smoother, creamier tone, less brittle and harsh than solid state.

I'm a sufferer of tinnitus, though apparently not as severe as yours, and I don't play electric guitar through SS amps any more, as I find that the tube amps are far less jarring on my ears.

awesome! many thanks!
Very very helpful!
Will def then get a valve amp!
rather pay more then save and do more damage!
There is hope for tinnitus tho, i keep an eye on the medical side of it every now and then for a few years now, hopefully in 4 years time there will be medication available that can repair the damaged cells in your ears that causes the ringing/buzzing, and I hope it will cure the pain as well.

Thanks again.

Norio wrote:

Dinky88 wrote: Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.

Yes that is very harsh. Watch it.

Sorry man, wasnt very nice I know. I did apologize.