African kid standing at the traffic light begging...

Tokai-SA

There was an African kid standing at the Corlett Drive off ramp/traffic light today...the normal story, going from car to car begging for a Rand or two.

I was about 7 cars back just watching.
No one gave him a cent, some cars closed their window, some cars waved him away.
As he got closer to my car I noticed that he had obviously been in a serious burning accident, his face, his entire upper body and both his legs were burnt so badly that it's hard to figure out how he survived, these burns were beyond anything I'd ever seen before...and of course he was as thin as a rake.
Tears rolling down his cheeks pleading for some small change.

WTF!!! is going on in this country.
How can anyone close their windows, wave the guy away and not help him out, I mean how effing cruel can you get?

Just saying...

joealien22

It is truly sad how people have become so de-sensitised.

What's even more sad is that if it was some kids trying to raise money for a rugby/cricket/soccer/netball/hockey tour or matric kids trying to raise money for their matric vac then people are mostly more than happy to donate, yet a street child is not worthy of these donations.

Very sad indeed.

doc-phil

This is not the public's responsibility. That child should be picked up off the streets by welfare, put in a home and taken care of. That's why we pay taxes no?

I refuse to give money to anybody on the roadside, it just encourages vagrancy, litter and crime and allows the government to continue to ignore the problem.

studmissile

I give what and when I can, I'm surprised you only picked one Tokai, there's a heartbreaker on every corner!

Charlie4

doc-phil wrote: This is not the public's responsibility. That child should be picked up off the streets by welfare, put in a home and taken care of. That's why we pay taxes no?

I refuse to give money to anybody on the roadside, it just encourages vagrancy, litter and crime and allows the government to continue to ignore the problem.

As a matter of principle I don't give money to beggars. I have had some long conversations with various people living on the street and mostly they avoid telling their whole story.

Once a guy asked for money at a 7/11. I said to him I don't give money but I'll try and help him where I can. He asked for clothes so I went back to my house, went through my drawers and took some items I thought he may need. Long story short, the cashier who regularly see these guys around told me he sold the clothes to buy booze.
So much for good will.

In the case of this kid though you have be careful in judging the situation. What must be done is he has to be taken to welfare. Institutions, though not perfect, are a lot more effective than individuals who don't always know how to handle such a situation.

I do feel morally obligated to help where I can - my prosperity is not more deserving than a child who was born into poverty.

ParadoximA

This article isn't about South Africa in particular, but it covers some points that do apply here:
http://intentious.com/2013/11/18/should-give-money-homeless-beggars-poverty-street-giving/

From the article:

"Organized begging is one of the most visible forms of human trafficking—and it’s largely financed and enabled by good-hearted people who just want to help ... these children aren’t allowed to keep their earnings or go to school, and are often starved so that they will look gaunt and cry, thereby eliciting more sympathy—and donations."

"It’s a devastating pill to swallow, since enslaved children who return to their captors without money might be beaten, tortured, or worse. But by giving them money, we only encourage the cycle, finance a horrific business model, and put future children in grave danger. When we give directly to children, we hurt more than we help."

I don't know if the typical South African street kid is a "slave" or "captive" belonging to a greedy organisation, but in many cases they are expected to stay out all day/night, and take the money back "home" and give it to their families or community. Regardless, it's not a system that's ever going to improve their situation. If they were ever given enough money to completely turn their lives around, they wouldn't be allowed the opportunity.

My basic point is that a donation is more likely to make a positive difference if it's given to a charity that knows how to use it to improve the situation in the long term.

Wizard

If you want to make a difference without worrying about money being squandered you can donate to a night shelter.
Or even volunteer time if you wish:
http://www.haven.org.za/

[deleted]

ParadoximA, that's what I thought of first when I read Tokai's post.

I agree entirely, we have become desensitized, or maybe we were just brought up in a fantasy world, where we assume everything's alright and now we have to struggle to see things as they are.

The fact is we live in a world where adults behave worse than children, and we ALL come from a culture where people's lives are largely seen as expendable. People always point to Europe as the "civilized pioneers", but it hasn't even been a hundred years since their last big war!

It's incredibly heartbreaking to think how many people's lives have been ruined by greed, and how helpless we all are in the face of all the problems. I count my blessings everyday that I was born lucky enough to have a roof over my head, running water and an education! I will never know the level of desperation that leads people to do the petty crimes they need to, to stay alive, and if I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same.

The people that have the courage and determination to not turn to crime, while at the same time being looked down on for being poor, are what make this country work, and deserve all the respect in the world.

Tokai-SA

I agree, give as much as you can afford to as many charities as possible...obviously make sure the charity is legit, etc.

But, this is an immediate situation, the kid standing at the traffic light is starving NOW, he's desperate NOW.
If you're thinking about all the reasons you shouldn't give, it's too late, the traffic light has already turned green.

You can come up with all the excuses imaginable as to why you shouldn't give, when the obvious reason to give is standing right in front of you starving to death and living in hell.

Tokai-SA

On a similar subject.

My sisters charity is called 'Warm the World'.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/267868106719111/

Interesting setup.
Wool is donated by various wool suppliers and donors.
http://warmtheworld.webs.com/donors

'We are an NPO that places baskets of wool and needles in the waiting rooms of doctors, dentists, lawyers, beauticians, hairdressers, school staff rooms and coffee shops.
People who are waiting knit a few rows of a square whilst they wait.
The next client simply carries on until it is a square.
We collect the finished squares, sew the squares together as blankets and distribute to those in need.
The blankets are in beautiful bright colours and those receiving them are immediately uplifted.'
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118043025@N06/

"How you can help"
http://warmtheworld.webs.com/how-you-can-help

Beneficiaries:

Thuthuzela

Kids Haven

The Neurodevelopment unit at the Charlotte Mxenge Hospital

The Lutheran Church Outreach programme in Alexandra( under the auspices of the Union of Jewish Woman/UJW)

The “graduates” at the Uthando Early Learning Centre,

The Lerato Project,

Aganang Old Aged Home, Makapanstad,

Twilight Children Outreach,

The Sunlight Safehouse,

Turning The Tide for Children

6 neo-natal units at hospitals throughout SA.

Out of the box

Methodist church JHB CBD

Hotel Hope Ministries

Phutaditjaba

Afrika Tikkun

Art therapy center at CMI

St-Martins-in-the-veld

Various informal settlements in Soweto, Alex and Hammanskraal

Rotary Orange Grove

Childline Gauteng

Children of the Dawn

Social welfare Kempton park

Soweto hospice

Ubuntu home care

Hope Warriors

Babies behind Bars

CAS ( Communities assisting schools)

Ponte DlalaNje inner city project

San Serena aged home

Granny headed households / UJW

Informal settlements Kromdraai

Ununtu self help Educate Centre

evolucian

*gives Tokai a big hug*... there there. I tend to agree with everyone's points. Give or think of scandal, they all work. If you're feeling particularly charitable that day, by all means feed those "poor starving children". I sometimes have my off days where I just give to get rid of them. Some harass me till I buy their little macguyver thing they made. Unless its a bible or anything religious... then its a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO!

So let's put this to you... you have absolutely nothing to eat in your home and you manage to find R12 in change hidden amongst your couch pillows which is just enough for some bread - outside the shop there is a little miserable boy (cos its never girls) coming to you asking for money without a voice (hand gestures seem to suffice for many of these people)... Now what do you do? Give it all to it - share your loaf - say no - tell em to sod off?

Whites do the begging thing as a family (especially right outside McD's or KFC... if there's trees, you're bound to find daddy or mommy there barking orders in hiding). Non whites also like groups but I've never seen a mom or dad around. Never seen an indian beggar though... perhaps the Durbanites can let me know if this novelty exists.

Viccy wrote: The people that have the courage and determination to not turn to crime, while at the same time being looked down on for being poor, are what make this country work, and deserve all the respect in the world.

I agree with this, though for personal reasons I would change this: *to not turn to crime or begging, yet maintain their existance through honest means and have learned to deal with battling to live* ... but thats just me.

*edit* On a glamorous side note: I helped a few out and always got the complimentary "God bless you sir, God bless you!". . . Sure, I felt bubbly and stuff but it was never a blessing - I've been dealt shit cards everytime I helped someone else. Maybe it would change if I too begged...

Cool, please can I be your charity?

*2nd edit* I can help that wool one - I have bags upon bags of wool along with needles (mama would be proud if it went to someone who would use it as I will only land up poking my eyes out). Sooo Tokai, let me know when you wanna pick it up

IceCreamMan

Tokai SA wrote: I agree, give as much as you can afford to as many charities as possible...obviously make sure the charity is legit, etc.

But, this is an immediate situation, the kid standing at the traffic light is starving NOW, he's desperate NOW.
If you're thinking about all the reasons you shouldn't give, it's too late, the traffic light has already turned green.

You can come up with all the excuses imaginable as to why you shouldn't give, when the obvious reason to give is standing right in front of you starving to death and living in hell.

Giving the kid a few shekels is a short term solution, by the sounds he needed to see a doctor , did you take him?

Chabenda

Sadly, where I live, thanks to the influx of foreigners, it has become quite easy to scrounge money. We have always had blind or disabled beggars but never had street kids back in the old days (up to about 2008). Those little snot gobbling street kids will still be begging and up to nefarious activities in forty years time - if they survive that long. The Muslim community have always assisted the blind etc with food - on a Saturday - one day a week, not everyday and not on every street corner. It's so easy to earn a living like this that there is little hope that they will ever try to do anything else. Work becomes too hard and the commitment too much trouble. There is an orphanage that tries to take them in and educate and train them. Three of their kids are in prison at the moment for bag snatching and have severely upset and disappointed the lady whom looks after them by lying profusely to her regarding their innocence.

We do have an obligation, as decent and fortunate people, to help. I have found it easier to choose an individual child and help them out by paying for education, books, food and some clothing on a monthly basis. Take that burned kid and do something positive for him - if he wants a life as something other than a beggar. You can't help them all, and many don't deserve help, but do something to make a difference. It will make you feel a lot better the next time you're at the robot winding your window up, knowing that you are doing something constructive.

DonovanB

There are incidents where some beggars step in front of your car so they can get knocked and try claim from the Road Accident Fund.

As a rule I don't give them money or anything because it encourages them to stay there. It is dangerous to stand in the street, that could be how they get injured in the first place.

There are many charities (too many IMHO) but in real terms, we cannot say we have found a real solution to poverty. As a human race we have a long way to go.

Evo, there are Indian beggars in Durban.

evolucian

Donovan Banks wrote: Evo, there are Indian beggars in Durban.

Yoh!!! *utterly shocked, flabbergasted and... and... stuff*

Nitebob

doc-phil wrote: This is not the public's responsibility. That child should be picked up off the streets by welfare, put in a home and taken care of. That's why we pay taxes no?

I refuse to give money to anybody on the roadside, it just encourages vagrancy, litter and crime and allows the government to continue to ignore the problem.

Well we know we are paying taxes for R240m houses....should we just turn a blind eye?

I have two stories here:

We live in Paarl and saw a Elderly gentleman called Dawid, living on the streets. We took pity on him, it being winter, and took warm meals, blankets, clothing, and some reading material regularly. We were elated when we heard that he was offered to stay in an outside room on a smallholding outside Paarl.

Lately we have seen Dawid back on the streets. It seems doubtful that someone who took him in will put him back on the streets, I'm starting to think it might not be that bad...

Second story: I'm a director (co-owner rather) of a fitment centre. Two days ago a man came wondering in here. Poorly dressed but not in tatters. He had a speech impediment but never once asked for money. Just asked a couple of general questions and off he went...

Yesterday, he came in again asking if I haven't got an odd job for him. Now he smelled of urine, strongly. I simply said no and walked on. Later he was hangin in my office door talking to me while phones are ringing and I'm trying to talk to customers he is smelling up my reception. I told him if he is not here for business he must leave. Later that day I felt so guilty, this man was obviously abandoned by his whole family and here I am chasing him off like a stray dog.

Doc might be right that's it's the financial obligation of the government, whose moral obligation is it? If we start to say it's not our problem, will we stand by and watch when a man beats his wife on the street? If someone gets mugged? Bullied? Will we simply drive by an accident that just happened?

Ghandi said that a lot can be told by how a country treats their animals....we give homeless animals a roof over their head, and food and have NPO's tending to just that. THe homeless person we feed and put back out. We spend a lot of money and recources trying to save the Rhino while humans die of hunger, and cold...

babbalute

I never give any money, or food or clothing items. If you give you contribute to expansion of the problem. Rather inform welfare organisations and contribute to them so they can their work better and for more destitute people. You know the saying : rather teach them to fish then feeding them fish every day. If any government would take this matter seriously they should both punish the donor(the ones in the car) and the recipient (beggar). Of course government should have a complete program in place to eradicate this problem and support welfare organizations. We all know that this support is getting less in this country. even Lotto funds are not allocated to rightful and trustworthy support organisations. Sad state of affairs and yes not only in this country. The very rich simply don't care about the poor, the one who can afford it give a little and the poor share what they have. Strange world we live in.

Tokai-SA

IceCreamMan wrote:
Tokai SA wrote: I agree, give as much as you can afford to as many charities as possible...obviously make sure the charity is legit, etc.

But, this is an immediate situation, the kid standing at the traffic light is starving NOW, he's desperate NOW.
If you're thinking about all the reasons you shouldn't give, it's too late, the traffic light has already turned green.

You can come up with all the excuses imaginable as to why you shouldn't give, when the obvious reason to give is standing right in front of you starving to death and living in hell.
Giving the kid a few shekels is a short term solution, by the sounds he needed to see a doctor , did you take him?

Good point.
He didn't have new burn wounds, his wounds were completely healed, this is obviously something that happened many years ago.

However, I think your question is, if these were new wounds/burns, would I have taken him to a doctor?
Well, I've never been confronted with such a situation, in other words an injured person/kid that's in need of urgent medical attention.
If I'm confronted with such a situation hopefully I'll do the right thing...

Tokai-SA

evolucian wrote:

*2nd edit* I can help that wool one - I have bags upon bags of wool along with needles (mama would be proud if it went to someone who would use it as I will only land up poking my eyes out). Sooo Tokai, let me know when you wanna pick it up

Thanks, much appreciated.
Please PM your phone number and I'll make a plan to collect it.

Attila

At that same intersection I was approached by a young african boy 16ish years old, and I was gobbed smacked when he asked for small change.

He spoke in the the eloquent english and accent, I was taken back and struck conversation with the lad, telling him that he clearly has places to go from what I have just heard from him.

His retort was that he has no ID doc and can therefore not apply for almost anything. Well I have spoken to a few people and we will see how we can help this boy ... but potential he has .......

I know there are a plethora of reasons why he could have ended up here.... what is fact is that its not so easy out there especially if you've never lived on that side ............