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  • I am officially asking for help with recordings & mixing please!

Hello there,

I am having a major problem and I was hoping that someone could possibly offer assistance or point me in the right direction.

I periodically need to record backtracks of the music I write for my vocalist and her vocal coach to practice and learn with. I am having such big problems getting the mixing or recording right and I am at the point where I am actually feeling like throwing in the towel.

It sounds just dreadful. I don’t need a studio-quality recording, just something listenable that doesn’t peel the paint of the walls. I have mud-issues, bass-problems, screeching treble drama and in the end it all just sounds like noise.

So I am turning to the community here for help. Ideally I would like to find someone that would possibly assist me in getting a setup/methodology right which I can use on a weekly basis to track what I have written or changed – or at the very least, help me find my downfall so that I can fix what I am doing wrong or know what I need to learn/practice/expand on. I am clueless here. If it was a once-off kind of thing I would’ve probably by now paid ama-pro-studio fees for recordings and moved on, but I need to be able to do this repeatedly with a listenable outcome.

I am not above paying for assistance, and will gladly do so if it will get me results. I also don’t mind schlepping my entire equipment setup anywhere for help. So far I have:

* Replaced the guitar
* Replaced the AMP
* Replaced the MIC
* Messed around with sound absorption
* Read every EQ article I could possibly find online
* Bought a new audio interface
* Borrowed a pair of studio monitors without much difference
* Asked at 3 different music stores however nobody could help and just wanted to sell equipment

And I still don’t feel like I am getting somewhere.

I don’t know if my guitar playing skills are just too crap (I am not advanced at all though the music isn’t that complicated), my composing is wishful thinking, my equipment won’t do what I want it to do (or I don’t know how to use it properly) or I just in general really don’t know what I am doing.

If you can help, I would greatly appreciate any assistance that I can get. Paid or otherwise.

I have reservations about posting sample recordings since I don’t think there is a short answer such as “low-shelf this” or “compress that” or “fader level it”, however I am sure and understand that anyone that might be wanting to assist will want to hear some of the catastrophic failing that I am dealing with, so here goes for more information:

* The music is melodic-ish metal.
* Instruments: Drums, Guitar, Bass Guitar, Female Vocals (no screaming), Keyboards (various strings & Piano sounds).
* Currently I am using synthesizers for everything except Guitar and sometimes when I track the Vocalist.
* I am using Cubase but not tied to it, currently considering upgrading to Cubase 7.5 but I don’t want to spend any more until I really know where my problem lies and what would be the next step forward.
* For the guitars I record an ESP MH-350FR through a Laney Ironheart IRT-60 amp with the IRT-212 cabinet using an SM57 Microphone, going into a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56.

So, this is what it sounds like

First of all, the following is the midi file that I originally composed, played back through my hardware synthesizer and recorded straight on a stereo track through the interface into Cubase. No FX/EQ/Anything done to it. The “violin” sound is the vocals which I muted out in the below recordings as I am trying to create a backtrack for my vocalist. This already sounds quite bad on my computer speakers when playing it back here instead of my audio setup or through headphones:

http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahmidi.mp3

Next, we have the actual recording. I had to low-shelf off the entire mix at 43 Hz to -16.6db using Cubase’s Low Shelf III at 7Q just to make it playable anywhere else:

http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahnoise.mp3

And just in case the problem really is my horrible playing, it can be listened to here. This is the guitar-group solo’ed. This is the 3rd attempt with different amp settings. I didn’t bother doing multiple takes anymore after all the struggling so excuse here and there a slip, but the general idea is there. With this take I cut the bass and treble on the amp and killed the reverb completely to try and clean things up. This is 4 layered guitar tracks and the same that can be heard in the above, simply solo’ed with the same everything when it comes to compression etc on top of it:

http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahguitars.mp3

Incidentally, I once somehow managed to get a “sound/mix/whatever” felt to me like it was a tiny step in the right direction – I might be wrong though and it is still not right to me, but you can hear this below. However, I have no idea how I did this and if I replicate all the filters, FX, EQ, etc in Cubase I cannot seem to re-create it. Everything is physically still in the same place than when I did this recording – but I am not sure what the amp settings were. Please excuse the guitar-sound change in the middle as well as the bad timing, this was actually just me messing around trying to find new ideas for a new song and I stopped and started recording again in the middle:

http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahintr.mp3

I have plenty more recordings of different songs done at different times but it all gives me a headache.

Please, I am begging, pleading I really do need help. I don’t mind putting in work, time, some money, effort whatever I can but I have absolutely no idea what to do, where to go, or what to try anymore. I feel massively demotivated because of all of this and I don’t want to lose momentum or give up. Aside from this tracking, mixing & recording drama I am enjoying this hobby tremendously but I am quite stuck at the moment.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this and being part of guitarforum.co.za
    Your playing and recording are fine. It's your mix EQing that needs work.

    Defeat all your EQs and mixdown again without them. I'm willing to bet that what you get is already far better.

    Properly recorded, your tracks should already mesh to some degree and EQ is used to just tweak and define. A general rule I set myself is to question any EQ that goes above 3dB boost or cut, and by the time I get to 6dB I know something else is wrong (unless I'm specifically going for a special effect).

    - About the only radical EQ you should ever use are low-pass and high-pass filters
    - Never use a shelving or parametric where a low-pass or high-pass is called for
    - Learn as much as you can about EQ (so you know things like why shelving EQ has no "Q" control - unless the manufacturer has morphed it into another function like overshoot).
    - Keep some reference tracks/CDs that you like on hand so that you can take "breaks" and reset your ear to what you are aiming for.

    Also, yes - monitoring is crucial and a big part of learning to mix is learning how your mixes on your monitors translate to other systems - which takes time and experience.
      Alan is the professional, and you should heed his advice, so pretty much all I can say is persevere ? unfortunately the advice you may receive in one thread won't solve your woes, but if you keep at it and read as many articles, watch as many youtube videos as you can from reputable mixing engineers, your recordings will improve over time.

      To my ear the guitars sound a little fizzy. I don't have any experience recording guitars from an actual amp, but you may want to consider placing a tube screamer or other booster pedal first in your effects chain. This way you may be able to dial back a little on the gain on your amp. I agree with Alan that radical EQ should be generally avoided, however it may help for your guitar tone at least to do some surgical EQ. Dial in a narrow Q and search through the audio spectrum and kill any unwanted frequencies (which I tend to find in the upper mids/highs) which may be creating fizz or unwanted harshness on your guitars. It may also be a case of adjusting your mic placement on the amp, maybe you just haven't found your sweet spot yet.

      I don't think your playing is bad at all.

      Upgrading to the latest version of Cubase won't solve your problems. Buying new gear and/or VSTs won't magically improve your mixes. Improvement is a process (a never ending one).

      The final mix you posted was vastly improved over the others... so essentially, you are improving on your own despite the fact that you may feel discouraged. Just keep at it and keep learning! Improvement will be incremental, but substantial over the long term if you continue practicing.
        Thanks guys,

        What you guys said actually did help. I killed all the FX Inserts and EQ's and started again.

        I was using shelving instead of a cut/high-pass. Forgot a bit and didn't realise it makes such a huge difference as the EQ curve looked pretty much the same. For some reason Cubase doesn't have a low-pass filter, not sure what is up with that, will look into finding/sorting this.

        I am also going to try a recording with the High Pass Filter turned on the Liquid Saffire input. I am also going to try doing a recording by turning the amp up a bit to get some cabinet involvement and to see the difference there. Did the actual tracking at 4am which was a bit difficult to do at high volume.

        It helped being told that my problem is definitely the mixing, at least I knew what to work on.

        Herewith the results:

        First Attempt at Redo: http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahwhat1.mp3

        Second Attempt (Where I am Now): http://www.enslaved.za.net/helpme/blahwhat2.mp3

        I would greatly appreciate any further advice or comments. I think it is still all a little noisy with things blending a bit much, but I definitely feel better about it now than earlier this morning

        Thanks doc-phil and Alan
          Go Youtube 5 Minutes to a better mix. The instructor literally shows you many many mixing tips in 5 minutes. The thing with mixing, is there is no magic plugin or EQ curve that makes everything sound nice, but its a combination of ALOT of smaller fixes and tweakes.

          Everything Alan said about EQ is spot on. If I could add to that:

          Dont mix in solo - i.e. Don't try EQing the track with the solo button. You need to mix in context of the other stuff. Its incredibly difficult and frustrating as the changes wont be so obvious, but it is almost pointless mixing in solo mode as the audience will never hear it from that perspective.

          Secondly, try cutting more than boosting, but also, don't cut more than 3db unless you NEED to. Cutting is more natural sounding. So usually what I will do is insert my high pass filter up to the point that you can just notice that the sound is changing. Then I do a bell filter and look for a crappy/muddy frequency, something that doesn't make the track sound nice (usually 300Hz - 900Hz) and I cut with a gentle Q. Maybe I'll find another crappy sounding freq part and gently cut that as well. Then maybe there is a fequency which makes your guitar or whatever sound good - then I boost that a little.

          Thirdly, don't underestimate compression - find a good preset, make sure there is about 3-6db of gain reduction and that should be a good point.

          Lastly - maybe try add reverbs and delays to make your tracks sound more exciting and alive. Granted, you're doing backtracks so it might not be entirely necessary - but it is nice ?
            serven wrote: For some reason Cubase doesn't have a low-pass filter, not sure what is up with that, will look into finding/sorting this.
            I'm also new to recording, so hoping to learn from this thread too.
            BTW, I'm using Cubase as well and just installed these plugins to use the Hi-pass. Has a low-pass too.
            http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/
              Hey dude,

              Where about in SA are you based?
              If you around Cape Town area, Ill gladly come around and show u some tips and tricks I have learnt/ learning.
              Otherwise we can just chat about it here.

              I can relate to your frustration. it just takes a little guidance and ALOT of patience.
              Dont be discouraged, there is surely gold at the end of that rainbow!
                If your guitar doesnt sound great after you recorded it, dont try and fix it with EQ. re-record it, move the mic and change amp settings, until you get something more workable, then use subtle EQ to enhance. High pass at around 100Hz and low pass at around 6k to start. there isnt many usable sounds of a guitar above or below those frequencies.

                What amp and mic are you using ?

                serven wrote: Thanks guys,
                I was using shelving instead of a cut/high-pass. Forgot a bit and didn't realise it makes such a huge difference as the EQ curve looked pretty much the same. For some reason Cubase doesn't have a low-pass filter, not sure what is up with that, will look into finding/sorting this.
                Cubase does have a low pass filter, of course, no DAW would be without such a thing. if memory serves, you just need to change the filter type from high shelf to Low pass on the right most EQ parameters of the default channel EQ of cBase


                  DrGonzo wrote: If your guitar doesnt sound great after you recorded it, dont try and fix it with EQ. re-record it, move the mic and change amp settings, until you get something more workable, then use subtle EQ to enhance. High pass at around 100Hz and low pass at around 6k to start. there isnt many usable sounds of a guitar above or below those frequencies.

                  What amp and mic are you using ?

                  serven wrote: Thanks guys,
                  I was using shelving instead of a cut/high-pass. Forgot a bit and didn't realise it makes such a huge difference as the EQ curve looked pretty much the same. For some reason Cubase doesn't have a low-pass filter, not sure what is up with that, will look into finding/sorting this.
                  Cubase does have a low pass filter, of course, no DAW would be without such a thing. if memory serves, you just need to change the filter type from high shelf to Low pass on the right most EQ parameters of the default channel EQ of cBase


                  Ah, thanks!It works.
                  No need for extra plugins ?

                    12 days later
                    My 5c worth...
                    At a guess, it sounds like the amp is being played quite softly (I may be wrong, I'm not a pro, just an enthusiastic amateur). To record an amp decently, it needs to be cranked up a bit, which is tricky if you're dealing with neighbours etc. Also, and this will involve getting someone to help, sweep the mike around in front of the speaker while playing until you find a sweet spot (so get someone to do the sweeping while you listen back to what comes out of Cubase) - it takes a bit of time, but can really make a difference. If possible, do this with the amp in a different room so you only hear what would be recorded, not the sound of the amp in the room as well.
                    If volume is an issue (this will be kind of controversial I think), maybe look into using amp simulator software instead - there's some amazing free stuff out there that will give you a really workable sound (although it would be a shame not to use a killer amp like the Laney Ironheart...). I've used them for recording my (metal) band (I live in a complex, so no option to crank anything up even slightly) and have been pretty happy with the results.
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