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  • Recording Sound different to Monitor question (Please help!)

Hi All,

(Firstly, sorry about the long post but really hoping someone could take the time to read and provide some feedback).
I am having a typical “it doesn’t sound right” problem when tracking my project’s recordings using the gear that I am having. I think that I have figured out where the problem lies but would really appreciate it if some people with a little more experience could possibly give me some advice here or check my assumptions before I waste a lot of cash (to me) on equipment that doesn’t fix the problem.

The music I am tracking/mixing is mainly melodic metal with a female vocalist. Currently I am primarily focussed on recording the guitars and vocal lines. My process is as follow:
  • I start by writing the song in Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, simply because I write my music note-for-note with a mouse cursor and I prefer Cakewalk’s staff-editing interface over anything else.
  • I then export the Midi and import it into Cubase 5. Once this is done, I playback the different instrument channels one-by-one from Cakewalk through my hardware synthesizer (Old Alesis Quadra S4) because I prefer the instrument sounds to what Cubase has (I subsequently mute the Midi tracks in Cubase and only occasionally use them.
  • From this point, I record the guitars and vocal lines separately one by one.
The signal chain is as follow:
  • Guitars: ESP MH35FR => Laney Ironheart IRT-60H AMP => Laney Ironheart IRT212 Cabinet => Shure SM57 Mic => Behringer Eurodesk SX3242FX Mixer (Subgroup Out) => Line In on Onboard Realtek Soundcard => Cubase 5.
  • Vocals: Shure SM58 Mic => TC Helicon Voicelive 2 Pedal => Behringer Eurodesk SX3242FX Mixer (Subgroup Out) => Line In on Onboard Realtek Soundcard => Cubase 5.
And here is the problem:

When listening on the Eurodesk Mixer as it is being tracked it sounds just great. However when playing it back it sounds somewhat terrible. I do realise and keep in mind that we’re not the most talented or qualified people but the tracks sound completely different than what it sounded like on the monitor headphones/speakers while it was being tracked. It seems rather thinnish or flat and it seems like a lot of detail is going missing.

After some research I am guessing that this is because I am using the onboard sound-card to capture the audio. With the guitars it is not so bad since I double track them to add a bit of body however the vocals is a nightmare – which is frustrating because I love my vocalist’s voice and would like to hear it on the recorded track.

I came to this conclusion because:
  • The current sampling frequency is 44.1 kHz. I realise that playback on a CD would also be 44.1 kHz but as I understand it a higher sampling frequency might catch more detail and what is being recorded before mixing/mastering/whatever would be a more accurate representation of what originally came down the analogue signal chain.
  • The bit depth that I am recording at is 16 bit. I don’t think moving to 24 bit would make much of a difference as there aren’t really that much volume differences coming from the source (High gain distortion on active pickups, and a fairly processed signal coming out of the TC Helicon Voicelive 2).
  • Finally: I think the biggest culprit is the Analogue => Digital conversion being done by the Realtek Onboard sound card. I am taking a guess here but logically it makes sense to me. If this conversion is sub-standard, it stands to reason that not everything will be captured “as it happened” and the result on playback will sound different.
The question what I would like to ask is this:

Am I right in my assumptions? Would a decent audio interface make a big difference? Am I missing something else?
I am considering purchasing either a “Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56” or the “Steinberg MR816 CSX” (specifically because I would like to eventually be able to track live practice sessions of 6 instruments) and the reviews that I have read online seems good and the price tag is something that I can manage.

Would this solve my problem or am I missing something else? Should I consider purchasing something else instead? I am aware that the SM58 Mic is not really for recording but it is what I have at the moment and is what we use for practice anyway and I like the monitor sound.

Just as an added mention, we don’t use wedges or monitor speakers for monitoring while tracking as a standard but just headphones instead.

Please help? I would appreciate any advice that I can get. I am also getting slightly confused with conflicting information I find on the net about these things…

Thank you very much in advance.[/list][/list]
    Am I right in my assumptions? Would a decent audio interface make a big difference?
    Yes, it will. I can't slag off the Realtek stuff enough...

    Even if you stay at 16 bit, 44kHz, a good interface will clear up all the weak links in your signal chain: A/D, D/A and the mixer. Everything you do runs through the interface at least twice (in and out) and tonal errors stack and add up quickly with multitrack stuff. From there it is just your recording and mixing techniques standing between you and being able to produce a decent recording (although, depending on your monitoring, you might have to learn how to compensate for your monitors too).

    I use a Liquid 56 myself and cannot praise it highly enough.
      18 days later
      before you run off and buy another sound card:

      1- yes, a decent card will provide way better sound/conversion/drivers etc, but in all fairness, i can almost guarantee you that most of your sound problems do not occur there.

      2- monitoring and acoustic treatment.
      there is no other big issue when it comes to capturing and reproducing sound on tape (or DAWa) as proper monitoring and at the very least some minimal acoustic treatment.
      from your post may i assume that you have no monitors what so ever?
      also, tracking guitars and vocals, both live instruments using microphones, you really need to be able to hear what is GOING INTO YOUR DAW.
      i assume you track guitars and hearing a lot of the actual guitar sound in the room along with what ever is going on in your cans (phones), and something similar with the vocals?

      well, if that is so, that is your biggest problem.
      even if you have no monitors/speakers at all and all your work is done using headphones, you will need to separate the sound of the room from where you are sitting so you could have a better idea of what is actually being recorded. how else would you be able to trully tell the actual sound being captured by the mic? perhaps the mic is not positioned properly infront of the amp?

      3- SM58 and recording vocals.
      there is absolutely nothing wrong with recording anything with that mic, and vocals are great with this mic, especially if your room acoustics arent that great.

      what does raise a question is the settings on the TC while youre recrording. i would advise setting all effect to OFF, perhaps leaving a little compression.
      actually, to start off, do not even use it.
      plug the mic right into the desk and record it with all EQ set to flat, no effect, nothing else but a good healthy signal flow.
      then use your TC and compare results.

      4- going back to guitar.
      try recording with some kind or guitar sim if possible.
      this way youll be able to truly hear just the tone of your sound going into your DAW.

      5- cakewake and cubase.
      i hear you about the midi editing in CW, but really, try give yourself some chance for a good fast flow.
      get some midi controller and make your life easier a thousand folds.
      not to mention that cubase 5 (sx5 i assume? not 5 from 12 years ago?) had fantastic midi abilities.

      6- sound card and other stuff.
      usually, i tend to advise to buy specific units depending on your needs.
      but in this case, i might just say go out and get a bundle, maudio or similar, gives you monitors, controller and sound card. some comes with extra mic.
      presonus also has bundles.
      some acoustic panels etc.
      youre looking at just over 5k for the lot.
      second hand might even score for less.

      recording should be easy and fun, not torture.
      id be happy to go with you and help you out when youre ready to invest, free of charge (gauteng) and try help you get the best deal.
        2 months later
        Most onboard soundcards are quite thin when it come to recording. They dont have the sample rate (even if they say 44.1) to record at that level. Most of the times they sample and with bad chipsets, converters and such you are mostly recording at nothing more than 32k.

        When you are tracking i assume you are listening to the output of the console and not the output back in to your console from the soundcard? I use to use my laptops soundcard just as scratch pads if i didnt feel like lugging my gear around with me but when it comes to recording properly then its all done on proper audio interfaces. Another side effect of onboard soundcards is the output bus. They are quite colored and their converters are not really clean so that also colors ones judgement. As an experiment for myself when pro tools 10 came out was to listen to a song i imported into PT via my mbox, digi003 and 92ios and then also the onboard sound card and the onboard soundcard was thin!!! I didnt even bother tracking because of just the playback test.

        There are a load of good interfaces out there to choose from, for the projects ive been workong on the last 3 years ive used a combination of RME stuff as well as tascam x48 and 2424s, and iZ radar, and even with the age of the tascam gear it was still sounding way way better than anything any onboard soundcard could produce..
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