Amp mic'ing options for live use

arjunmenon

Appreciate some input here - hoping to find a decent, moderately rugged, muso budget-friendly, dynamic, preferably low impedance, hum cancelling, cardioid or supercardioid microphone (phew...)

Any other suggestions besides the ones listed?

(old forum) Poll Results: Which microphone would you choose?

Sennheiser e609: 2
Shure SM57: 11
Audix i5: 3
AKG D112: 0
AKG Perception P4: 0
Audio-Technica PRO 63: 0

Big-G

I can hook you up with a Tul G12 for R2k! I've used it live, and its designed specifically for guitar cabs and to be used smack in the centre of the cone right up against the baffle. Handles high SPL's from a cranked amp beautifully, but also good with amps set at lower volumes too.

Best dynamic mic I've used on an amp by quite some margin, but personally I much prefer to use a condenser.

Regards
G!

Mr-M

If you can afford Big G's mic, I'd go with that one.

Otherwise for something that fits your brief, Audix I5 is the best value in SA. If we were in the USA, I'd say go with an SM57, but the pricing disparity is very big here... I5 all the way. Lots of stores have old stock at old exchange rate prices as they sell slower than Shures (SA consumers as we know are very hung up on brand name), so you could probably get one for less than half the price of an SM-57 if you shop around.

AlanRatcliffe

57s are the standard because they work and can take a lot of punishment. Not the flattest mic, but the humps and dips in the response are in the right places to give the amp lots of presence for a live mix (which does work against some amps, IMO).

The e609 (I'm presuming the silver) has a similar sound and is real nice in that you don't need a stand - just put the cable through the handle and hang the mic in front of the speaker. Good for a cramped stage and gets you consistent results night after night, because placement is always the same. I just bought an older black model, which is darker sounding than the Silver, so gives me a very different voice to play with and is good at taking the edge of harsher amps.

I haven't used an i5, but they get a lot of love...

The e609 edges out the others for me, just because of the convenience. Sound-wise I prefer the 57. BTW - My all-time favourite is the U87, bit that's totally impractical for live use.

Big G wrote: I can hook you up with a Tul G12 for R2k! I've used it live, and its designed specifically for guitar cabs and to be used smack in the centre of the cone right up against the baffle.

Actually, Tully recommends a couple of inches back. They're also truly ugly. ?

Keira-WitherKay

don't over think this ... virtually any mic will do

sure some techie's will ramble on endlessly over this or that but seriously in real world a cheap shure mic placed in front of any cab will send the tone to the PA

maybe i'm just being simplistic but i mic my 2 x 12 cab at most gigs and result is compliments for good tone ............. of course i'm talking "live' sound here be more fussy in the studio but on stage even a cheap behringer mic will give you a spread thru the PA ? i use the shures and i get compliments best being my sound was very like peter greens jazz tele tone .......(obviously i use a tele and play thru a fender 65 deluxe pedal thru 2x 12 vintage fender speakers from a 60's 4x12 i chopped .... (with solid state head that is battery powered 12v) and that was not even a top end shure ......

basicaly most any mic these days gives a good tone if the original sound is good

AlanRatcliffe

Keira WitherKay wrote: don't over think this ... virtually any mic will do

Different mics capture different versions of the sound. Each captures a different aspect of it and we usually look for the mic that captures the version that sits best in the mix with minimal EQing. Which is "best varies" depending on application.

Oh, and Arjun - if you're willing to up the budget, also look at the Sennheiser MD421 and Electrovoice RE20. I'd also take the D112 off, unless you're planning on dual-micing and pairing with a brighter mic.

I've been looking into the Audix a bit today too and I think I'm going to have to put one on my shopping list too. ?

arjunmenon

Thank you for the input guys.
Presently, i'm leaning towards the Audix.
It comes in cheaper than the e609 and meets pretty much all my requirements.

@ Big G, i would love to come by sometime and hear the Tully.

@ Mike, thanks for the tip regarding the Audix. Will definitely shop around. Hoping to also score one of those amp grabber things (i've got an amp stand but it unfortunately doesn't have the gooseneck attachment).

@ Keira, i know you what you mean, but i've had some mixed results. So much so, FOH set flat, it's become very obvious that what the amp is putting out and what comes across are 2 very very different things. Bass sounding muddy, mids sounding a bit too nasal-like and the highs sounding dull. The idea was to find a mic that's honest but not brutally so, and to use that as the starting point for tweaking at FOH. In your case with the Shure, i think it could be a case of the sum > cumulative parts. It also doesn't hurt to have the chops, hey ?
Btw, where do you place the mic on your 2x12?

@ Alan, what i've been reading about the 57 is that placement is of great importance (I was hoping for some level of fire & forget trickery - which i liked about the e609). I might one day move to a 2 mic mix (front and back of amp). Ah nirvana...
I wasn't sure about the D112 (seeing that it's main application was for drums). I did eye the MD421, but it is out of my budget :-[

AlanRatcliffe

Arjun Menon wrote: @ Alan, what i've been reading about the 57 is that placement is of great importance

It is with any mic. Even with the e609, you'll probably want to hang it a little to one side, away from the dust cap.

Mixerboy

i5 is like a slightly better SM57 with the transformerless mod, same price or cheaper if I remember (1k off bid-or-buy)

AlanRatcliffe

Having now researched it and listened to some good quality comparisons, the i5 looks like a great option - very similar to an SM57. Slight differences in response - enough to make it a different mic option for a pro, but not enough to move it away from being a similar workhorse mic for most like the 57. Fully 33% cheaper locally (SoundSelect carries the i5 for R1 049 and the 57 for R1 599), so I'd say it's a no-brainer.

arjunmenon

Thanks folks.
I've settled on the Audix i5

Cheers :goodtimes:

singemonkey

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The e609 (I'm presuming the silver) has a similar sound and is real nice in that you don't need a stand - just put the cable through the handle and hang the mic in front of the speaker. Good for a cramped stage and gets you consistent results night after night, because placement is always the same. I just bought an older black model, which is darker sounding than the Silver, so gives me a very different voice to play with and is good at taking the edge of harsher amps.

This. Think about it bud. When you're setting up the mic on the 300th gig and start adding up all the time spent effing about with stands or clamps and then the disasters when they're accidentally stepped on by some galoot's huge feet (I'm looking at you Jack Flash), then the extra initial spend to be able to just hang the frickin' thing in front of the amp is not going to seem so bad. This is definitely the route I'm going to take. It's like an SM57 that's designed for miking an amp in live. That makes it pretty much perfect in my book.

arjunmenon

singemonkey wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The e609 (I'm presuming the silver) has a similar sound and is real nice in that you don't need a stand - just put the cable through the handle and hang the mic in front of the speaker. Good for a cramped stage and gets you consistent results night after night, because placement is always the same. I just bought an older black model, which is darker sounding than the Silver, so gives me a very different voice to play with and is good at taking the edge of harsher amps.
This. Think about it bud. When you're setting up the mic on the 300th gig and start adding up all the time spent effing about with stands or clamps and then the disasters when they're accidentally stepped on by some galoot's huge feet (I'm looking at you Jack Flash), then the extra initial spend to be able to just hang the frickin' thing in front of the amp is not going to seem so bad. This is definitely the route I'm going to take. It's like an SM57 that's designed for miking an amp in live. That makes it pretty much perfect in my book.

You have a point Monkey man. I'm not gigging much these days, and the way i plan on using the mic, it is going to stay set up pretty much all the time.
About the e609, and i'm just guessing here, wouldn't it be prone to picking up too much bass and amp/cab vibrations?

singemonkey

Can't imagine that's a very serious concern at the end of a cable. And you can still set it up like a normal mic at home. But if you're refusing to share your talent with the world then you don't need to worry about the practical considerations. ?

AlanRatcliffe

Arjun Menon wrote: About the e609, and i'm just guessing here, wouldn't it be prone to picking up too much bass and amp/cab vibrations?

Picks up some vibration from the cable, but a lot less than from a mic stand and normal clip. I suspect that the grille cloth acts as a decent shock absorber for the direct contact with the amp (unless you have one of those br00tal cabs with steel diamond mesh).

Also, if you see your mic is floating horizontally in front of the cab, you should turn down a bit. ?

Tokai-SA

When Mark Beling was mic'ing up his Fender Twin live he always used a E609 hanging over the cab.
Sound through the PA was always awesome with a nice "transparent" EQ.

studmissile

Arjun Menon wrote: Thanks folks.
I've settled on the Audix i5

If you get the i5, give us review, I opted for the sm57, but was very tempted by the i5, still might get one down the line....

Keira-WitherKay

Arjun Menon wrote:
@ Keira,
Btw, where do you place the mic on your 2x12?

i just aim a shure directly at one speaker ...about 2/3 cm from the grill cloth ......too close and you get enhanced bass and overload and too far and it sounds thin..... biut for my shure mic and that cab i have through trial and error found that if i do it as explained my guitar sounds as good through the PA i also use those small purpose built mic stands ...cos i did try a clamp and like alan said i picked up odd vibrations and the mic in it's own stand just sounded right from the get go ...

i am a 'no fuss" type live muso..... i just plonk it down and sound guy smiles and no complaints from audience.....

but i know some guys tend to 'phaf " about for hours at a sound check for a small gig ...i never get that ... but if it floats their boat .... ?

but for most small gigs your amp should be loud enough and the mic'ing is just for some spread thru the PA .......and in my mind as soon as my gig is on a big stage/festival/big club even some casino gigs the sound crew will do everything....and have some nice mic's to use too....

remember my attitude of any mic is good...is aimed at "live" use and mic's for mic'ing acoustic guitars live is a whole other game ...but i find most mic's today with the leaps in low cost technology even the "better cheap chinese ones" have a pretty good midrange responce and most guitar sounds are predominantly mid range tone ....

studmissile

Keira WitherKay wrote: maybe i'm just being simplistic but i mic my 2 x 12 cab at most gigs and result is compliments for good tone ............. of course i'm talking "live' sound here be more fussy in the studio but on stage even a cheap behringer mic will give you a spread thru the PA ? i use the shures and i get compliments best being my sound was very like peter greens jazz tele tone .......(obviously i use a tele and play thru a fender 65 deluxe pedal thru 2x 12 vintage fender speakers from a 60's 4x12 i chopped .... (with solid state head that is battery powered 12v) and that was not even a top end shure ......

Keira, do you have clip with this set up running?

sharonzaz

IMO I hated the i5 on an amp, in fact, I don't even know why i bothered getting the damned thing, even on a snare drum it does not even compare to the sm57. Got both, and the beta57, and ands down the sm57 will beat any other mic in most cases.

Well, that's what I think, I'd do a shoot out for you if I had the time but sorry, flooded with work at this time.