Flamenco guitar strings

Flamencosaint

Hi All

For those who play flamenco im pleased to announce that Music Mate Sable square behind Century City Canal Walk now sells Daddario flamenco guitar strings ?

After much convincing this is one of only a few shops in SA who stocks flamenco strings.. and its less than R150

They should stock these in JHB already but in Cape Town its a first

Enjoy

AlanRatcliffe

The Savarez 520s (P, R and PI) are pretty freely available. Last time I looked, you could get La Bella too.

Flamencosaint

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The Savarez 520s (P, R and PI) are pretty freely available. Last time I looked, you could get La Bella too.

Flamenco strings? Last week I called every music shop I could find on google in Cape Town and no one had, some didnt even know they existed. When I asked some of them to bring it in they said they wont as theres no market for it here. Johan @ Music Mate was the only guy willing to bring it in. But perhaps Ive missed some places in CPT that sells, a reccomendation will be appreciated :?

Would be great If there were La Bella's and Savarez flamenco's

Please let me know of any place you might know in Cape Town

AlanRatcliffe

Tradelius imports them (both Savarez and LaBella, last I looked). It's just down to the shop to stock them. I usually ask Bothner's to get a box for me and they order in, plus usually one or two for their own stock.

Actually, last time I ordered, I tried a box of D'Addario composites (EJ46 - hard tension) as the Savarez were proving too percussive for the piezos I use. I'm pretty happy with those - they last a lot longer too.

Flamencosaint

Aaah I see, Im a frequent @ Bothner and Marhsall music and as far as flamenco is concerned they not very into it and because the market is so small they wont really import something they have a greater risk losing out on. Tried doing that for a while and didnt work out so well.

Daddario's are known for their long lasting quality but unfortunately their classical strings doesnt do it for me since my Maingard Blanca demands the punchier attacking sound for the complicated techniques. even though these are the best strings on the market now thats available here its kind of a thing where "theres no other option" . im just abit sick of importing strings all the time thats why i tried my luck by finding out who will bring these in.. and it worked ?

V8

Flamencosaint wrote:
For those who play flamenco im pleased to announce that Music Mate Sable square behind Century City Canal Walk now sells Daddario flamenco guitar strings ?

After much convincing this is one of only a few shops in SA who stocks flamenco strings.. and its less than R150

Many thanks (& thanked) Flamencosaint - just picked myself up three sets of EJ25B's for a excellent price - significantly cheaper than I was getting EJ46C's from Bothner's - with the slightly pimp-y black trebles 8). Quite happy to report that the manager there, Johan is a seriously nice guy - was used to dealing with friendly, but slightly unprofessional staff there over the years. Reckon I'll be spending some sore time there.

As I'm no guru on tone or flamenco pro, I doubt I'll have much to report on the tone difference on my so-so nylon's - though I'm looking forward to fresh strings and the feeling under the fingers.

Flamencosaint

V8 wrote:
Flamencosaint wrote:
For those who play flamenco im pleased to announce that Music Mate Sable square behind Century City Canal Walk now sells Daddario flamenco guitar strings ?

After much convincing this is one of only a few shops in SA who stocks flamenco strings.. and its less than R150
Many thanks (& thanked) Flamencosaint - just picked myself up three sets of EJ25B's for a excellent price - significantly cheaper than I was getting EJ46C's from Bothner's - with the slightly pimp-y black trebles 8). Quite happy to report that the manager there, Johan is a seriously nice guy - was used to dealing with friendly, but slightly unprofessional staff there over the years. Reckon I'll be spending some sore time there.

As I'm no guru on tone or flamenco pro, I doubt I'll have much to report on the tone difference on my so-so nylon's - though I'm looking forward to fresh strings and the feeling under the fingers.

Pleasure man, I hope they make a nice difference for you

Ill be heading over there now to get mine :?

Will give those interested feedback on how they are once ive strung them up

Thanks Yazeed

Flamencosaint

So I put on the strings this evening and I must say its impressive. Nice quick attack and punchy ideal for flamenco, the trebbles could be better though as its very light and not that loud which causes kind of an imbalance between basses and trebbles. But overall I'd say its nice considering we don't really have other options in SA but to import. So overall I'd give it a thumbsup ?

AlanRatcliffe

You may find the basses will soften pretty quickly. I find the Savarez basses are a bit loud (and squeaky!) at first, but settle in after a couple of days.

Flamencosaint

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: You may find the basses will soften pretty quickly. I find the Savarez basses are a bit loud (and squeaky!) at first, but settle in after a couple of days.

Ill def look out for that. The other good thing i found though is that playability is quite easy and also because there isnt a tension specified on the packaging Id say its a normal tension hence the strings being so soft and light. 1 of the bad things are that the trebbles are extremely thin and when the picado is done @ a medium tone it almost sounds "Gut like"'. That isnt a huge issue as the trebbels can always be replaced with others

Further Id say im happy with it

AlanRatcliffe

I presume it's these: http://daddario.com/DADProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=3769&ProductId=239&productname=EJ25C_Pro_Arte_Clear_Nylon_Composite__Flamenco

They seem to be standard nylon with composite basses. The basses are the same type as in the EJ46C set I use, but the whole set is slightly lower tension. You might also want to try a set of extra hard tension (EJ44C) to see how they compare.

V8

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I presume it's these: http://daddario.com/DADProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=3769&ProductId=239&productname=EJ25C_Pro_Arte_Clear_Nylon_Composite__Flamenco

They seem to be standard nylon with composite basses. The basses are the same type as in the EJ46C set I use, but the whole set is slightly lower tension. You might also want to try a set of extra hard tension (EJ44C) to see how they compare.

Those be the strings, except they are the EJ25B's (black treble's) - strung up 3 guitars yesterday and I'll agree w/Flamencosaint the treble's are noticeably prominent over the bass (compared to a set of EJ46C's - which I've used 6-8 sets over the last 18mths). Still waiting for the strings to settle in, apparently the composite basses take a while to break in (3-4 days or 3-6 hrs playing time depending on the source). Though at this early stage I'm not digging the bass/treble balance in the EJ25's - I think I prefer the balance between bass & treble's in the EJ46's.

Did a quick compare on the d'Adario site between the Composite's I've tried (EJ45 - normal tension; EJ46 Hard Tension & EJ25B Flamenco)

On one forum on fellow claimed the trebles were identical to the EJ46's according to correspondence w/d'Adario (the specs are close to identical). The specs on the basses are quite different though - perhaps they do use a different core to the EJ45/46's?

Flamencosaint

Thats correct V8

The one thing overall that makes me like them are the basses, sound is very prominent and attacky for flamenco however its just the trebbles they could improve on. The set I took off lastnight are Tomatito-Savarez flamenco strings which I had on for 2 weeks, I just love the sound, feel, punch and playability overall... only problem is quality though, friend of mine brought it from Spain and after having them on for 6 days the D string snapped. that is where Daddario is the big boss over all of them,endurance....

Ill try the Tomatito trebbles with the daddario basses tonight and see how they match. Most Flamenco guitarrists match their strings from different brands to get the sound they want

Alan i think Ill get the extra hard tension and see what they do as well

AlanRatcliffe

Well worth a try. The EJ45C/46C both also have a choice of nylon or composite third string. I like the composite.

V8

Flamencosaint wrote: only problem is quality though, friend of mine brought it from Spain and after having them on for 6 days the D string snapped. that is where Daddario is the big boss over all of them,endurance....

Argghhh! I've used two sets of savarez's (all I recall was that they were 520's - high tension & very high tension) though I liked them very much (esp the basses), I thought the basses wore very quickly compared to the composite's - As I am a lazy @$$ when it comes to string changes, the composite's are certainly 'the boss' ?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Well worth a try. The EJ45C/46C both also have a choice of nylon or composite third string. I like the composite.

I tried the composite - my poor ears cannot tell the difference, though the fingers seem to prefer the normal G. On a steel string acoustic I cannot get used to a wound G, maybe something to do with it.

I hoping we could convince someone to bring in sets of basses or single strings in bulk - I'm quite heavy on the basses, so I tend to have to change those out much more often (as many have remarked).

AlanRatcliffe

IIRC, the Savarez are as follows:
520R - unwound trebles (my faves)
520P - wound third (nylon on nylon)
520PI - wound 2nd and 3rd

They are all very high tension. The trebles have a nice rough/matte feel to them and have a pre-melted "ball" end too (which is great for my no-wrap stringing method).

I also find that while the basses are the best sounding of everything I've tried, the tension kills them quickly (3 weeks for me). Gets real expensive, real quick. You used to be able to get packs of just the basses, so I would change the basses at leat once for each set with trebles. I also haven't tried their composites.

As mentioned before, I've stopped using the Savarez because of the added percussiveness I get from the piezos in my Carvin. The D'Addario composite basses last for a couple of months at least and the more classical-sounding trebles suit the guitar better.

YMMV - bear in mind I'm not really a flamenco player, just someone who incorporates some modified flamenco technique.

Flamencosaint

I think a major problem here is lack of resources!!
We dont have everything needed as musicians so we have to make do with what is available and the more I dig into Flamenco the more I find how feisty it really is. It demands certain things that we just dont have here which is crappy and exciting @ the same time but more crappy lol

Perhaps ill ask Johan @ a later stage to try and get in other flamenco strings to really see what we missing out on.

AlanRatcliffe

Ag, I wouldn't complain. I can remember the days when you had a choice of Augustine or Black Diamond strings. Different tensions were unheard of.

Consider for a moment that compared to the originators of the music, we are incredibly spoiled - but they still managed to create wonderful music. I wonder how happy we would have been with their gut strings?

Flamencosaint

I get what you are saying and I agree. The truth is music has evolved and so has the times, the gut strings they used @ the time were probably equivalent to La Bella's or savarez we use today haha. Just becomes abit frustrating knowing other countries has it readily available and considering our dualistic economy it shouldn't be so hard to cater for everyone

Example.. There is no music shop (or atleast none that ive heard of) in SA that sells flamenco guitars.luckily for me I found 1 of the very few that Marc Maingard made here which is on par with the more well known Luthiers

But ag don't mind me.. Just blowing off some steam hahaha

Maybe in future it will happen ?

V8

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: IIRC, the Savarez are as follows:
520R - unwound trebles (my faves)
520P - wound third (nylon on nylon)
520PI - wound 2nd and 3rd

They are all very high tension. The trebles have a nice rough/matte feel to them and have a pre-melted "ball" end too (which is great for my no-wrap stringing method).

I also find that while the basses are the best sounding of everything I've tried, the tension kills them quickly (3 weeks for me). Gets real expensive, real quick. You used to be able to get packs of just the basses, so I would change the basses at leat once for each set with trebles. I also haven't tried their composites.

Ahhhh, thanks Alan - that makes sense - I must of had the 520R's - unwound trebles. I did dig around last nite for the pack's, but they are gone. I bought them last year in Holland, I just asked in my worst afri-dutch for the highest tension strings they had :?

I've yet to perfect your no wrap method on the trebles - I must be missing a trick, the knot keeps on slipping up over the back of the bridge, so I put in a wrap to keep the knot secure (one less wrap than I used to). However your method on the basses works great for me (& looks super neat).

Flamencosaint wrote: I think a major problem here is lack of resources!!
We dont have everything needed as musicians so we have to make do with what is available and the more I dig into Flamenco the more I find how feisty it really is.

I reckon the laws of demand and supply are in effect here - the resources would be there if the demand is there. I had a all to brief love affair last year (6mths of lessons) w/flamenco and came across some really passionate players & dancers who were dedicated to the form - really inspiring! But they had to invest personally (time & money) to support & grow their passion. This seems to apply to other forms/genre's to (Renaissance, Classical) locally.

Two things I really came to appreciate from flamenco was how the Nylon string guitar can sound in the hands of a maestro and how much passion and dedication it takes for the performers (Guitar, Singer, Cajon & especially Dancers) to be true to the expression. Bloody brilliant, made my efforts in music look super amateur (which they are).

Flamencosaint wrote: Example.. There is no music shop (or atleast none that ive heard of) in SA that sells flamenco guitars.luckily for me I found 1 of the very few that Marc Maingard made here which is on par with the more well known Luthiers

Yeah I agree - Last year I looked locally for a Nylon stringer around 6-8k w/pickup that could be suitable for flamenco. Only found one Ramirez and a few Yahama's in the price range and really they didn't impress compared to a entry level Alhambra I was using. Ended up buying a yamaha (CG170-SA modded w/pickup) from a GFSA member, which for my humble/student efforts, is still more guitar than my skills can make use of... ?

Now if I had the budget for a Maingard...MMmmmmm I'd probably be too scared to play it! I think the value of my entire music collection might jusssttt cover a maingard, maybe... ?