Oscar Pistorius to be charged with murder...

Tokai-SA · 2013-02-14T16:53:56+00:00

WTF... he shot his girlfriend dead. ?

deefstes

Hammeron wrote Fair enough. But sometimes the truth seems obvious, does it not?

And sometimes the obvious isn't the truth. History is rife with examples of that and that is the very reason why, in the judicial system, people are assumed innocent until proven guilty. I'm not making any comment on the innocence/guilt of Oscar Pistorius, I'm merely saying that, regardless of what seems obvious at this stage, he has not yet been proven guilty and therefor is only an alleged murderer, not a murderer.

Hammeron wrote I would hate to see him..er, get away with murder just because he is rich and famous tho.

So would I, but I will abide by what the courts find. I'm not sure how you will know that he got away with murder. Right now we know very little, as evidence are presented will we hopefully know more but I seriously doubt that, if the evidence is convincing, the court would still alow him to get away with murder just because he is rich and famous.

Bob-Dubery

Tokai SA wrote
Hammeron wrote
deefstes wrote
Hammeron wrote He shot her 4 times and she is dead. At best, manslaughter, worst, pre-meditated murder. Put him in with Jub Jub.
Perhaps an accurate assumption, perhaps not, but it still is an assumption and you are pre-judging the man. I'm just thankful the courts do not operate along the same logic that the general Facebook and online forum members are.
Fair enough. But sometimes the truth seems obvious, does it not?

Yes it does. ?

Well here's the thing if you want to consider your verdict right now: Do you have all the information? Almost certainly you do not. All any of us have is what the press are putting in the public domain, and they are being very careful to use wording like "alleged" or "well placed sources say". IOW they are telling you what they heard, not what they KNOW.

Even if you accept that the press reports are true then we don't know how many shots were fired and in which rooms - which is significant. We know that Pistorius was taken for blood tests but we don't know what tests and what the results were.

I must say, that to me it looks like he must be guilty of something serious (not necessarily murder) but it's clear too that we don't have the complete picture.

studmissile

It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest. This of course is the nature of the beast when in comes to fame! The same fame that has favored Oscar handsomely. Unfortunately with this turn of events, all the little troublesome stories that were quickly swept aside and managed by a PR firm will come out in full ugly force. It’s inevitable…. Like I said the nature of fame so many desire!

Wizard

[stir]

Re-reading this thread, there are two main points being made:
1) we have no idea what actually happened
2) he is obviously guilty!

[/stir]

:roflmao:

Bob-Dubery

studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.

Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.

studmissile

X-rated Bob wrote
studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.
Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.

I hear you but there's a dead person in this story! I don't think even the media can handle or control this, they can only "run with it" Media always supplies demand!

vic

studmissile wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.
Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.
I hear you but there's a dead person in this story! I don't think even the media can handle or control this, they can only "run with it"

and it sells newspapers...dont forget ! ?

deefstes

Vic wrote
studmissile wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.
Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.
I hear you but there's a dead person in this story! I don't think even the media can handle or control this, they can only "run with it"
and it sells newspapers...dont forget ! ?

I don't understand the problem. National hero is accused of killing girlfriend. Of course the media will pounce and the social networks will be set ablaze with chatter. Did anyone actually expect that people would shut up and wait until the case has been concluded?

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote
Vic wrote
studmissile wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.
Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.
I hear you but there's a dead person in this story! I don't think even the media can handle or control this, they can only "run with it"
and it sells newspapers...dont forget ! ?
I don't understand the problem. National hero is accused of killing girlfriend. Of course the media will pounce and the social networks will be set ablaze with chatter. Did anyone actually expect that people would shut up and wait until the case has been concluded?

I may have misunderstood Studmissile. My point is that whilst the public are very interested in this case that doesn't mean that the police or the court have any special duty to keep us appraised of what they know.

Also that whilst we're interested in this because a celebrity is involved we don't actually have a RIGHT to information about the case.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I know... I'm a stick-in-the-mud.

studmissile

X-rated Bob wrote
deefstes wrote
Vic wrote
studmissile wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
studmissile wrote It’s a little naive to think it wouldn’t be such frenzied interest into the public domain, this is a world-class sporting icon, and whatever happened will be of great interest.
Well, there's been quite a hoo-ha about the press and "public interest" in the UK. One of the key cases was that of Max Mosley who was filmed participating in what was described as a Nazi-themed orgy. The splashing of Mr Mosley's sex life all over the front pages was defended as being in the public interest because, at the time, he headed up the organisation that draws up and enforces the regulations for Formula 1 motor racing (which is, at best, only part of the truth - Mosley's parents were Oswald Mosley and Diana Mitford who were stinking rich and deeply unpopular in the UK).

The guys looking into this and similar cases (like pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge sunning herself in private) have consistently emphasised that "public interest" and "what the public are interested in" are not the same thing.
I hear you but there's a dead person in this story! I don't think even the media can handle or control this, they can only "run with it"
and it sells newspapers...dont forget ! ?
I don't understand the problem. National hero is accused of killing girlfriend. Of course the media will pounce and the social networks will be set ablaze with chatter. Did anyone actually expect that people would shut up and wait until the case has been concluded?
I may have misunderstood Studmissile. My point is that whilst the public are very interested in this case that doesn't mean that the police or the court have any special duty to keep us appraised of what they know.

Also that whilst we're interested in this because a celebrity is involved we don't actually have a RIGHT to information about the case.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I know... I'm a stick-in-the-mud.

I hear you X-rated Bob, just explain that to the reading public!

Tokai-SA

I'm told the house was full of steroids.

IceCreamMan

not looking good at all for OP ..schedule 6 premeditated.......

studmissile

Its interesting to note the legal interpretation of premeditated murder.

The prosecution gave a different version of events. Prosecutor Gerrie Nel said Pistorius got up from bed, put on his prosthetic legs, armed himself, walked seven metres to the toilet door and shot Steenkamp four times; three of the shots killed her. Even if he thought she was a burglar, it was still premeditated murder, Nel said. But he asked why a burglar would lock himself in the toilet.

Taken from:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-live-coverage

exsanguinator

look..i dont know if anyone else mentioned this ,
but i havent bothered to read all the posts...
If hijackers,murderers,rapists and other criminals can get bail of R1000 or so,even when they have previous convictions....
then what is all the damn fuss about.... a bail hearing?
Give him bail,and concentrate on the case...geez ...really...get real people...what the hell ???
If hes guilty or not will be finally resolved later on...

studmissile

This is how they (lawyers) do it. They got to size one another up see what each has, and in what direction each are going. I would be very surprised if he doesn't get bail (but with very strict conditions). I'd be even more surprised if the prosecutors d hadn't foreseen that from the outset. It's all strategy, isn't it? A case like this, that can make and break careers with all the attention.

It will be a while before the trial so they want to check how this might play out.

FruitarGeek

X-rated Bob wrote Also that whilst we're interested in this because a celebrity is involved we don't actually have a RIGHT to information about the case.

Actually, that is not entirely correct, unless I am misinterpreting what you saying . . . in terms of the Constitution, all matters must be heard in a fair public hearing before a court.

With regard to his personal side, yes, we dont have a right to that.

DaFiz

They're accusing the police of blundering their investigations which is to be expected from our inept investigators.
I just do not believe one word of the defense's unlikely story and will be horrified to see this dastardly deed go unpunished. >☹

Bob-Dubery

Adrian Rogowski wrote
X-rated Bob wrote Also that whilst we're interested in this because a celebrity is involved we don't actually have a RIGHT to information about the case.
Actually, that is not entirely correct, unless I am misinterpreting what you saying . . . in terms of the Constitution, all matters must be heard in a fair public hearing before a court.

Correct. My point is that there's no requirement that anybody feed facts, evidence or hearsay to the press for our consumption.

Public hearings are about justice being seen to be done, not about public titillation.

Highway-Chile

This story is obviously getting air time here and the interest of the public. Here is what is going around here.

At first it was she snuck in to surprise him on VDay. Then he heard a noise in the bathroom and ended up mistakingly shoooting through the bathroom door while she was on the can. The computer generated diagrammed images show his prosthetic legs as leaning against the wall opposite the foot of the bed and of him "crawling" without them to the bathroom. They show a cricket bat leaning on the wall near the patio/porch deal.

It is being said the police is bungling the investigation.

There is some talk of a single shell casing found inside the bathroom.

There is talk of steroids being found and a syringe.

Here is what. Firstly.......removing abject blame from this for a second.........this is a tragedy on both sides. Especially for Reeva and her side of the family. But also for Pistorius' family and..........given whatever was going on in his head that caused him to do this.........it is sad that a man who overcame so much, has just undone all that over............... what? A lovers quarrel? Jealousy? A case of mistaken identity? etc etc etc?

I am an avid shooter and I own many handguns and rifles.......including 3 AR-15's and a .308/7.62X51mm sniper rifle/precison marksman rifle. There is a rule that is drummed into your head if you are a responsible shooter/firearms owner.........IF you take the classes or read the books..... or listen to the advice of others etc.

Along with...........

You NEVER point a gun at anyone or anything unless you are prepared to kill.
You keep your finger OUT of the trigger guard until you have identified the threat and are ready to fire.
You always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS know your backstop.

.........there is the "rule" that will likely be the one that will sink Pistorius.........

Always know your target. DO NOT shoot at that you cannot see- DO NOT shoot at sounds.

This is such a common sense deal that he is in deep shite over it. If he get's off this scott free......BASED ON THE SKETCHY INFO OUT THERE........... there will be a lot of fingers being pointed at the SA legal system.

Tokai-SA

Highway Chile wrote This story is obviously getting air time here and the interest of the public. Here is what is going around here.

At first it was she snuck in to surprise him on VDay. Then he heard a noise in the bathroom and ended up mistakingly shoooting through the bathroom door while she was on the can. The computer generated diagrammed images show his prosthetic legs as leaning against the wall opposite the foot of the bed and of him "crawling" without them to the bathroom. They show a cricket bat leaning on the wall near the patio/porch deal.

It is being said the police is bungling the investigation.

There is some talk of a single shell casing found inside the bathroom.

There is talk of steroids being found and a syringe.

Here is what. Firstly.......removing abject blame from this for a second.........this is a tragedy on both sides. Especially for Reeva and her side of the family. But also for Pistorius' family and..........given whatever was going on in his head that caused him to do this.........it is sad that a man who overcame so much, has just undone all that over............... what? A lovers quarrel? Jealousy? A case of mistaken identity? etc etc etc?

I am an avid shooter and I own many handguns and rifles.......including 3 AR-15's and a .308/7.62X51mm sniper rifle/precison marksman rifle. There is a rule that is drummed into your head if you are a responsible shooter/firearms owner.........IF you take the classes or read the books..... or listen to the advice of others etc.

Along with...........

You NEVER point a gun at anyone or anything unless you are prepared to kill.
You keep your finger OUT of the trigger guard until you have identified the threat and are ready to fire.
You always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS know your backstop.

.........there is the "rule" that will likely be the one that will sink Pistorius.........

Always know your target. DO NOT shoot at that you cannot see- DO NOT shoot at sounds.

This is such a common sense deal that he is in deep shite over it. If he get's off this scott free......BASED ON THE SKETCHY INFO OUT THERE........... there will be a lot of fingers being pointed at the SA legal system.

I was watching the interview with Reeva's parents last night on TV, it basically brought me to tears...her father is a completely broken man...too sad to even comprehend.

Can you imagine detectives in the USA allowing the uncle and the Lawyer/Advocate of the accused to open a safe in the house and remove documents before the forensic investigation had even started?...bizarre.

What really pisses me off is the uncle (Oscars manager) who's only interest seems to be that Oscar's career continues and he continues to get endorsements...pathetic.
Problem is, Oscar was a money making machine and the machine was being managed by a family member, his uncle and others.
Oscar's shown many signs of potential "problems" dealing with the fame and pressure of performing, but the management team covered the cracks to ensure the money kept rolling in.
Oscar needed "help" from his management, but he never got it.

I think the Valentines day e mails/sms and phone calls will reveal what really happened in that room, and why it happened.
Hopefully the Police forensic team doesn't f**kup the investigation...the prosecutor and Judge should be able to handle the rest.

I think he'll get convicted for murder, minimum sentence 15 years, he'll be out after 8 for "good behaviour".

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