The Name on the HEADSTOCK

vic · 2013-01-02T16:25:57+00:00

We often see "you pay extra for the name on the headstock"...or..."I don't care what's on the headstock"...or...etc. How important is that "name on the headstock" when you buy a guitar (or a keyboard, or a piano, or...) ? ???

Tokai-SA

Norman86 wrote
X-rated Bob wrote Lol. I slipped up on the I... word, though I don't think any of those deals amount to playing an off-the-shelf instrument such as you or I could buy, nor that they had to pay very much for those instruments. I've tried to stick to artists who bought their instruments on the way up before companies offering endorsements beat a path to their door (or who never got big enough to be appealing to be appealing to a big manufacturer).

this is exactly what i alluded to in the previous pages..
bar one or two artists who might use bog standard models, i think that most artists have some slightly off beat variation on the models we see being played!
very few use off the shelf models imo.

What do you think the differences would be between an off the shelf Custom shop Strat and let's say Dan Patlansky's Custom shop Strat?

Norman86

competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.

Norman86

Tokai SA wrote What do you think the differences would be between an off the shelf Custom shop Strat and let's say Dan Patlansky's Custom shop Strat?

well for one, its a custom shop, so its definitely not your off the shelf american standard! plus there are probably a few artist requests.. pickups, neck profile, fret size..

Tokai-SA

Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.

Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

IceCreamMan

Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you

Norman86

Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

thats just bad business practice.
and see, things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again.
but then what do i do to show displeasure?
its like trying to complain about the SAPO. no one actually cares.

actually, its more like staying in an abusive relationship, and thinking that its better than no relationship.

IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you

+1 to that.. besides, someone was bound to say it.

i think what it comes down to, is that in the past, the name mattered a lot, as there were so few people doing it properly. be it instruments, cars, electronics, whatever.
these days, we are truly spoiled for choice, and just relying on the name, does not guarantee you anything.
unless you are buying, a custom shop fender, a custom shop gibson, a tom anderson, a 7 series bimmer, an s class merc.
and just paying for the name is stupid. regardless what it used to mean. thats my opinion anyway.

Bob-Dubery

Norman86 wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

thats just bad business practice.

Well I don't know. Some of these instruments are made in very small production runs - a couple of hundred. Once Fender decide that their European operation is going to get a certain allocation of this small number, what's a good way to decide which country gets what?

and see, things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again.
but then what do i do to show displeasure?
its like trying to complain about the SAPO. no one actually cares.

That's a monopoly, with everything that goes with that. Fender have a monopoly on their own brand, but not on guitars in general, so you have choices and can take your business elsewhere. Even if you want a double cutaway guitar with single coil pickups and a bolt on neck you have options, as long as you are not wed to the name on the headstock.

Tokai-SA

IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you

Not sure what you're talking about, what inefficient business model?
There's a limited supply of Custom Shop models available, so they have a bit of fun deciding who gets what, in the end they all share what's available.

Do you think Fender SA are complaining that one in every thousand South African guitarists is buying a Fender online instead from a local music store?
Fender SA have been awarded European distributor of the year on more than one occasion...they're excellent.

Tokai-SA

Norman86 wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

thats just bad business practice.
and see, things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again.
but then what do i do to show displeasure?
its like trying to complain about the SAPO. no one actually cares.

actually, its more like staying in an abusive relationship, and thinking that its better than no relationship.

IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you
+1 to that.. besides, someone was bound to say it.

i think what it comes down to, is that in the past, the name mattered a lot, as there were so few people doing it properly. be it instruments, cars, electronics, whatever.
these days, we are truly spoiled for choice, and just relying on the name, does not guarantee you anything.
unless you are buying, a custom shop fender, a custom shop gibson, a tom anderson, a 7 series bimmer, an s class merc.
and just paying for the name is stupid. regardless what it used to mean. thats my opinion anyway.

Norman.

Sorry bro, I have to call BS here.
What do you mean, "things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again."
Things like what?

Because you're having a partscaster built suddenly you've become anti Fender and you're complaining about their business practises?
Sorry, I'm not understanding your complaints?
Let me defend Fender by saying that IMO they're most probably the best guitar company in the world, anyone who complains about Fender is FOS, IMO.

How much has your partscaster cost you so far?
How much will it cost you when it's finally complete?
How sure are you it will be a better guitar than an off the wall Fender for the same price?

ryanguit

I think it's safe to say, we are spoilt with the fact that it's so easy to make a partscaster. But if we all had infinite money this thread would not have any appeal. Fender design, accident or not, copyrighted or not, is my favourite tone. Tele, Strat, P bass, J bass. But to get that tone doesn't require it to be written on the headstock. Of course Fender as a company and their rep here, is actually very very good. Just compare it with the limited Gibson range we have. my main issue with the brandname stuff is the price difference between what's decent and what's literally plywood with "by fender" under the logo.
Squier (huge range of confusion)
Squier classic vibes (proper parts)
China (debatable. Not a fan)
Mex (used to good value)
Japan (no longer exist?)
Highway one (10 grand USA. not worth)
Decent USA stuff starts mid R15000

Price order not quality...

ryanguit

Also as a double post excuse. Props to the fact that Tokai man over here is defending Fender... Respect is given not demanded.

IceCreamMan

Tokai SA wrote
IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you
Not sure what you're talking about, what inefficient business model?
There's a limited supply of Custom Shop models available, so they have a bit of fun deciding who gets what, in the end they all share what's available.

Do you think Fender SA are complaining that one in every thousand South African guitarists is buying a Fender online instead from a local music store?
Fender SA have been awarded European distributor of the year on more than one occasion...they're excellent.

1 in a thousand ...mmm not sure that is the right figure .....

The Fender pricing is out of whack here in ZA and this has opened up a door via the internet for better pricing...sometimes a lot better including "scarce" custom shop models ....

dont get me wrong , i love Fender ....

but we have digressed ....

free2rhyme

ftcl wrote
Joe Moore wrote

The more you practise / learn , the better you get , no matter what the name on the headstock is. 8)

+1.

However.

This does not stop me from wanting that all important name on the headstock. Even though I cannot in any way whatsoever warrant buying it. My current main guitar is everything I want. Except sometimes. Sometimes I can't help but wonder: Would it not be better?

I'm a terror with this, I do like the name on the head stock, sometimes its good sometimes bad. When I bought cheaper guitars it always left me witha thought... would the original be better. Its not to say that eg tokai are any less of an instrument than gibson,its just that I like the gibson on the headstock. Its nice to know you're holding a guitar of legacy

Chabenda

1965 Chevrolet Impala - Made in the USA, a damn fine spacious car, you could land a Cessna on the boot, sit four abreast front and back for the drive in. Revel in the luxury.

2013 Chevrolet Spark - Made in South Korea, re-badged Cort, sorry I meant Daewoo, you could pack it in a Cessna, sit two abreast in the front, 2 x 0.33 sized people in the back, forget about the drive in, they're closed. Ooh my back!

Same badge on the head stock but chalk and cheese

DonovanB

Chabenda wrote 1965 Chevrolet Impala - Made in the USA, a damn fine spacious car, you could land a Cessna on the boot, sit four abreast front and back for the drive in. Revel in the luxury.

2013 Chevrolet Spark - Made in South Korea, re-badged Cort, sorry I meant Daewoo, you could pack it in a Cessna, sit two abreast in the front, 2 x 0.33 sized people in the back, forget about the drive in, they're closed. Ooh my back!

Same badge on the head stock but chalk and cheese

You're not comparing a strat with a strat. Or an Impala with an impala. Also, the Tele, LP or strat haven't changed much. You get different versions but it's still technically the same thing,

Chabenda

Donovan Banks wrote
Chabenda wrote 1965 Chevrolet Impala - Made in the USA, a damn fine spacious car, you could land a Cessna on the boot, sit four abreast front and back for the drive in. Revel in the luxury.

2013 Chevrolet Spark - Made in South Korea, re-badged Cort, sorry I meant Daewoo, you could pack it in a Cessna, sit two abreast in the front, 2 x 0.33 sized people in the back, forget about the drive in, they're closed. Ooh my back!

Same badge on the head stock but chalk and cheese
You're not comparing a strat with a strat. Or an Impala with an impala. Also, the Tele, LP or strat haven't changed much. You get different versions but it's still technically the same thing,

Absolutely correct - the point was that the name may remain the same but everything about the company may have changed. Is a Bugatti Veyron really a Bugatti? I'm not being too serious about this Donovan as it is such a confusing topic, full of potential to cause cr*p. Vic is extremely devious!! ?

Edit: Suffice to say that if I was going to buy a Chevrolet, I would be looking for a mid fifties to early seventies model as there is no way that they could build them the same these days. That too is the time frame that my guitars came from - As a youngster I messed about with a '68 Stringray, '71 Z28 Camaro, Capri Peranas, Monaros and '55 Chevs, listening to the Beach Boys, Bob Dylan and the Band, Clapton, Hank Marvin, Deep Purple, Lynyrd Skynrd - et al. Boy, those were the (my?) days!!! There is little to compete with a 454 cu Chev V8 with 12.5/1 compression ratio, on av gas, through four inch collectors, for rattling your rib cage and making the ground vibrate! In the same way, I doubt that a new Head Stock guitar could rattle my rib cage as much as an old one. Stuck in a time warp!!

Bob-Dubery

IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote Not sure what you're talking about, what inefficient business model?
There's a limited supply of Custom Shop models available, so they have a bit of fun deciding who gets what, in the end they all share what's available.

Do you think Fender SA are complaining that one in every thousand South African guitarists is buying a Fender online instead from a local music store?
Fender SA have been awarded European distributor of the year on more than one occasion...they're excellent.

1 in a thousand ...mmm not sure that is the right figure .....

I think you're being a bit too literal here. You don't know the figure and neither does TokaiSA. I think what Tokai SA has said can be interpreted as "a very small minority". He IS much closer to the musical instrument business than you or I so I'd certainly think he's got a better feel for the pulse of the market than I, for one, have.

Norman86

Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

thats just bad business practice.
and see, things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again.
but then what do i do to show displeasure?
its like trying to complain about the SAPO. no one actually cares.

actually, its more like staying in an abusive relationship, and thinking that its better than no relationship.

IceCreamMan wrote
Tokai SA wrote
Norman86 wrote competition restrictions for one yes!

i think custom shop models are the only ones without restriction?! especially if its a team or master built custom shop model.
Let me tell you how Fender SA get their Custom Shop/Master Built models...because there are so few to go around.
Fender SA fall under Europe distribution.
A few of the main reps from the European countries & SA go into a room and throw dice, if you throw good you get first choice. ?

Then these ppl should not complain when we bypass them and buy direct ...far more effectvie an efficient and generally mucho cheaper too...if you going to use an inefficient business model then dont cry fowl when we bypass you
+1 to that.. besides, someone was bound to say it.

i think what it comes down to, is that in the past, the name mattered a lot, as there were so few people doing it properly. be it instruments, cars, electronics, whatever.
these days, we are truly spoiled for choice, and just relying on the name, does not guarantee you anything.
unless you are buying, a custom shop fender, a custom shop gibson, a tom anderson, a 7 series bimmer, an s class merc.
and just paying for the name is stupid. regardless what it used to mean. thats my opinion anyway.
Norman.

Sorry bro, I have to call BS here.
What do you mean, "things like that make me not want to buy a Fender again."
Things like what?

Because you're having a partscaster built suddenly you've become anti Fender and you're complaining about their business practises?
Sorry, I'm not understanding your complaints?
Let me defend Fender by saying that IMO they're most probably the best guitar company in the world, anyone who complains about Fender is FOS, IMO.

How much has your partscaster cost you so far?
How much will it cost you when it's finally complete?
How sure are you it will be a better guitar than an off the wall Fender for the same price?

im on holiday and really not in the mood to reply with a huge response.
i have complained in the past, long before having a guitar built up.
from why are fenders so expensive here, to not even being able to buy the fender magazine here.
im not anti fender guitars, not in the least! i love them wholeheartedly.
im anti fender za's business practices. quite a difference.
how i experience it, makes me not want to buy a fender product.
why support someone, as much as you love them, when they dont love you back?
other people are comfortable with that, and thats cool too. but im not.

and just off hand, i cant buy a fender, or tokai, with the body, or the colour i wanted, without buying a custom shop model.
the fender select is close, but its not what i want. either way, the select is more than double what i have paid for the guitar and parts. and lets not talk about what a custom ahop model with my specs would cost.
will it sound as good? i beleive it would.
would a similarly priced american standard or tokai sound as good? maybe, probably.
would they be to my hearts content though? no.
its as much a visual thing as what its an aural thing for me.
and im only talking for me. no one else!

Norman86

Tokai SA wrote Do you think Fender SA are complaining that one in every thousand South African guitarists is buying a Fender online instead from a local music store?
Fender SA have been awarded European distributor of the year on more than one occasion...they're excellent.

one more thing.. if Fender truly didnt care, why the trade restriction to not allow us to buy direct?

AlanRatcliffe

Norman86 wrote if Fender truly didnt care, why the trade restriction to not allow us to buy direct?

That's global - if you are in a country that has a distributor, you cannot buy a new Fender from another country. They do it because it is sound business practice to protect your distributors as they provide shipping, warehousing, distribution, backup, artist relations/endorsements and an account structure in the countries they represent. Without those things, they cannot sell their product to local stores or promote them properly in the country. And of course, they can move far more through local stores than they can selling direct - as well as back it up properly.

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