How do I earth an amp, and electric fence woes.

Paddy

A two for one thread ?

First issue. I have a Roland keyboard amp that I use as a FRFR system for my multi-fx pedals. The amp has that round two prong plug with those indents. I get that buzz that goes away when I touch the string or any metal part. Same thing with 4 different electric guitars. My pedals are a Boss GT10, and a Zoom G3. I've done a test using the G3 alone using batteries and it still does the buzzing, which lead me to believe it is the amp and not the pedals.

Is there any remedies for this?

Second unrelated issue.

Recently moved into a complex that has an electric fence. Through my amps I can clearly hear that tick, tick, tick of the pulse for the fence. I've also heard it while playing with a Vox Amplug. Spoke to a guy who mentioned that it could be electro magnetic interference from the fence and that I should be able to buy a EMI (electro magnetic interference) plug that I put into the power plug and then the amps power plug into the EMI plug. Trouble is, no shop I've been to has ever heard of such a plug.
Any wisdom on this?

Sorry for the silly questions.

makepeace

to ground it, you could open it up and check if your power cord has a ground wire and just connect that to the chassis (by solder or lug washer or whatever), this is assuming the circuit is grounded to the chassis - which it probably is - and then rewire the plug with a 3 prong plug. if it doesn't have a ground wire, then you could desolder the current power cord and replace it with a 3 core cord and solder the ground wire to the chassis and the other two to the live and neutral. then wire up a 3 prong plug on the other end. ?

second issue: as far as i know, the most convenient solution to this is a power conditioner (ups type thing). another solution is to get a separate power line (one that the electric fence does not share with your power).

Gearhead

From what you write about the Amplug, you are playing a single coil guitar and it picks up on the emf of the fence. You must be close to this fence or close to a socket that is transmitting the same ticktick. The real solution is for proper grounding and electrical installation of the electric fence generator, combined with some stacked pickups (Kinman anyone?). Unfortunately, you will need to fork out a bit for those pups and you will have trouble convincing the powers-that-be of you complex that their electrical installation stuff has not been done. The least they should consider is a separation transformer between the electric fence thing and their net, as well as a separate earth cable for the ticktick-thingamajig.

Bob-Dubery

Gearhead wrote: From what you write about the Amplug, you are playing a single coil guitar and it picks up on the emf of the fence. You must be close to this fence or close to a socket that is transmitting the same ticktick. The real solution is for proper grounding and electrical installation of the electric fence generator, combined with some stacked pickups (Kinman anyone?). Unfortunately, you will need to fork out a bit for those pups and you will have trouble convincing the powers-that-be of you complex that their electrical installation stuff has not been done. The least they should consider is a separation transformer between the electric fence thing and their net, as well as a separate earth cable for the ticktick-thingamajig.

Won't that still leave an air borne signal for the pick ups to pick up?

camba

X-rated Bob wrote:
Gearhead wrote: From what you write about the Amplug, you are playing a single coil guitar and it picks up on the emf of the fence. You must be close to this fence or close to a socket that is transmitting the same ticktick. The real solution is for proper grounding and electrical installation of the electric fence generator, combined with some stacked pickups (Kinman anyone?). Unfortunately, you will need to fork out a bit for those pups and you will have trouble convincing the powers-that-be of you complex that their electrical installation stuff has not been done. The least they should consider is a separation transformer between the electric fence thing and their net, as well as a separate earth cable for the ticktick-thingamajig.
Won't that still leave an air borne signal for the pick ups to pick up?

Hi Bob,
Not necessarily, if the fence was correctly installed and maintained, there should be no radiated signal. As we do not live in a perfect world, problems arise, any short, such as a leaf, spider, lizard, dirt, etc that grounds the live section of the electric fence to ground, will cause a spark. This spark will cause EMI (electro-magnetic interference). At that point, the electric fence becomes an illegal wideband radio transmitter.

Gearhead

It is my understanding that the fence applies the same positive voltage to the one wire as it does a negative voltage to the other. This would mean that the net emf is not that big. The reason I think there is so much ticktick is that the voltage is not generated very cleanly which sends a spike back down the AC power supply. This would be cured with a separation transformer. I suppose that grounding the generator separately will further isolate it from the grid as well as help balancing the positive and negative swings.

Paddy

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it.

Gearhead- I will open up the amp and have a look-see inside and try what you have suggested. As for the power conditioner. Will a normal PC UPS do the trick?

X-rated Bob- I have Fender Hot Noiseless, Lace Sensors, and Seymour Duncan humbuckers in the guitars. So there is some assortment of humbuckers that still pickup the ticks. which is quite sad because once i hear those ticks all inspiration to play goes out the window ?
And talking to the developers (Complex still being built) will be an issue seeing as thou you need a translator to speak to them (They're Chinese). Already having fights with them to fix their bugger ups, and just trying to explain to them what's wrong is a mission in itself due to the language barrier.

Camba- i have noticed when i looked that there is loose fence wires that touch other wires. So maybe there is a 'Illegal wideband radio', that plays the soulful tick tick track all day, everyday on your favorite radio station 'Wired Wrong FM'

Maybe the best solutions is building one of those Faraday Cages and play inside the cage(starts singing "Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage').

Thanks guys ?

Gearhead

Paddy wrote: Gearhead- I will open up the amp and have a look-see inside and try what you have suggested. As for the power conditioner. Will a normal PC UPS do the trick?

I was talking about the ticktick thing, not the guitar amp. You want to leave the amp alone and go to the source of misery.
I use a Samson power conditioner that is cheaper and way more suitable than a PC UPS. It does not cure ALL ticktick, however. If my guitar/amp starts ticktick, I just have a walk around my fence, cure any arcing and voila I am sorted.

Chabenda

Always look on the bright side of life - think of how much money you have saved on not having to buy a metronome ?

Paddy

Haha Sorry Gearhead. I ment that i will check inside the amp to check if i can ground the amp. Then onto the second issue i referenced the ups for the tick tick thingy. ?
What does one of the Samson's go for?

Chabenda, you might be onto to something there! ?

Gearhead

Paddy wrote: What does one of the Samson's go for?

Example

Gearhead

Power from a 10A unit is theoretically more than 2000W so your PA will not run from it at full tilt. Measure what you are actually using or buy a 15A unit. I have no idea what their past/present product lineup is or how they compare, I just figured for the money I'd not misspend on one. What I would like now is one of those powerbrite pro jobbies, but that's just greed.

AlanRatcliffe

If you want a Sampson, get them while you can. They discontinued all their power conditioners earlier this year. I've seen a Proel at more than double the price (and looks a bit "rough-hewn"). Audiosure now carry the SurgeX products, but I have no experience with them yet and they are pro level and priced accordingly (R5K+).

Paddy

Thanks Gearhead!
And thanks for the heads up Allen. Will be procuring myself one ASAP!
Even on the odd chance that it doesn't remove the ticks, or only partially does. I think it might be a good piece of gear to invest in for other benefits!
And goodluck with your solution Joe! :bopping:

Gearhead

Joe Moore wrote: I looked up the fuse ratings on the 3 amplifiers . They are 1.6A + 2A respectively on the 2 tube amps and 5A on the power amp = 8.6A total.
{...}
the total maximuim amperage drawn by all 3 amps running together at 'normal band' levels would be substantially less than their total 8.6 A {..} thus the PB / PS-10 will be able to cope ?

Well then your PA is not really 3kW is it? Unless it beats all those energy laws we always hear about...

Paddy

Joe, thanks for the offer. I reside in Bloem, bit of a mission to test out ?
Thanks anyway. Let us know how it turns out for you!

makepeace

Paddy wrote: Haha Sorry Gearhead. I ment that i will check inside the amp to check if i can ground the amp. Then onto the second issue i referenced the ups for the tick tick thingy. ?
What does one of the Samson's go for?

Chabenda, you might be onto to something there! ?

That was actually me who talked about the grounding of the amp.. And imo whether or not you have a power conditioner, or you sort out the ticktick, this is important. Need to ground that amp or you will be the ground path when something goes wrong - probably won't be so fun.

Paddy

Makepeace so sorry about that. It's all these long days I'm having in Kimberley, and there being almost no water in the town. My brain is dehydrated and seeing diamonds everywhere.

I'll get buzzing with that grounding suggestions of yours before I start buzzing ?

Apologies again.

AlanRatcliffe

makepeace wrote: Need to ground that amp or you will be the ground path when something goes wrong - probably won't be so fun.

+1000. In fact, "probably won't be so fun" doesn't do the potentially lethal consequences any justice. It can't be stressed enough - make sure your amp is properly earthed.

Make sure your wall sockets are properly earthed too. If you gig, always carry a mains tester and check any mains outlet you use and, if you find a problem, use another outlet that is known to be good and alert management (mention liability for injury or possibly death - that usually gets their attention ?). If you supply a tech rider to venues, make sure that suitable and safe power is a deal-breaker (so you can refuse to play and they are still responsible for paying you you ?).

Yes, I tend to bang on about this, but electricity loves me ...and I have a heart condition, so it's not something I can ever afford to forget.

Paddy

Alan as they saying goes "Better safe then sorry" so I agree with you. And today I will also be replacing that plug on the Keyboard amp. After that newsletter you sent out about the plugs, I started to notice something. When I would sit and play guitar and I would stop to bend down and make adjustments to the gt10. The guitar would fall forward and the strings would touch that sensitive skin on the inside of my arm. I could feel a light stinging sensation. It now makes sense that the amp was probably earthing through me. I've felt it before but never paid any attention to it. Eek!

Joe, got a electronics company next to my work place. Will go speak to them today about that tester. And I'll still try get the Samson sometime soon. Lots of lightning storms happening in Bloem lately and I think the surge protection it offers will be a bit of extra care for my equipment. ?

Thanks guys!