If you had to start over...

Mannemarak

..regarding your career, what options are there?

a While back I posted an issue I had regarding my client for whom I full time do work for and regarding some un-ethical practices that was going on that in my sense damages the company as a whole and prevents anyone other than chommies or family to progress. So the damn burst when I asked for a raise in my monthly service fee, they out rightly refused so I brought the whole topic up about the unethical making of money by other parties also doing contract work for the company and why can they get more if I may not?
I also asked them that if I am mistaken they should tell me why there is nothing wrong with what they are doing and show me where I am at fault. I was given no answer and there was some stammering, and that to me was my answer. I was then told that according to everyone else I am the most difficult person to work with and that since I brought up the other parties' issue the other party feels I attacked him (He is not speaking to me at all). Keep in mind I only discussed this with the management of the company so they went and told the other party what I said (chommy chommy) and that is un-professional in my books anyway. It went so far as to me telling them to make the call and cancel my agreement with them, which they did not want to do (Heck, talk about asking to be fired )

Ok so my actual point is that if you had to start over, what type of part time courses can one take that is actually worth it like the Health and safety officer type work etc. I am asking since I have no qualifications (MCSE fell away since not entirely in the IT industry anymore)
I am more than willing to work my backside off to make a living if it means I am building towards my future, but at least need to get paid enough to survive, hence the need to get qualified in something that does not take 4-6 years of study and the money involved with it. It is just that if I need to go now from here then I need some options to consider.

Sorry about the long dreadful post, just like some peoples thoughts on this.

Bob-Dubery

Mannemarak wrote ..regarding your career, what options are there?

a While back I posted an issue I had regarding my client for whom I full time do work for and regarding some un-ethical practices that was going on that in my sense damages the company as a whole and prevents anyone other than chommies or family to progress. So the damn burst when I asked for a raise in my monthly service fee, they out rightly refused so I brought the whole topic up about the unethical making of money by other parties also doing contract work for the company and why can they get more if I may not?
I also asked them that if I am mistaken they should tell me why there is nothing wrong with what they are doing and show me where I am at fault.

As a general rule of thumb, the burden of proof should lie with the party making the accusations. If somebody accuses me of something I'm entirely justified in telling the other party to prove it.

One needs to think twice before playing such a card against employers or business partners. If you accuse and then can't prove then the business relationship is damaged and you're potentially facing a disciplinary hearing or the cancellation of a contract. If you CAN prove then what are you going to do? Report it to the cops? Take it to the HR department of the company you work for and demand a disciplinary hearing?

I'm not saying it cannot and must not be done. I'm saying that you should think at least twice before playing this game, and be prepared to play it all the way.

I'd also not discuss it, even without mentioning names, on a public web forum. It's NOT the same as a private chat amongst friends, it's putting something in the public domain. You open yourself up to potential legal action.

Bob-Dubery

RE my last comment above. I say this as somebody who works in an office that includes somebody who recently made derogatory comments about her work colleagues on Facebook - and had to face the consequences. We have also had people at the company where I currently work making comments on FB about their sexual practices and posting pictures of themselves in minimal clothing. Things get around quickly. Regret can last a lot longer.

Mannemarak

I understand, the proof I have is in them not denying it and the other party confirming it as a way things is happening. Now, I do not give a crap about what is happening anymore at the company, I am looking at getting out, so to be honest, the post is not about what I should do regarding the company, it is about options when not there anymore. I just gave some background info.
But I understand that It can get hairy if it is in public domain.

Thanks for the feedback

makepeace

What I gathered from the explanation: To me it seems as though Mannemarak is unhappy with where he is working for ethical reasons, whatever the outcome of the ethical disagreement he has with the operation, and it seems as though the relationship has already been soiled. I don't think following up on his convictions is his priority, rather getting out asap and moving into a less hostile position. Anyway, as I interpret, it seems its fixed-term contract employment (is it? if so what are the termination conditions?) - so, in all likelihood there isn't much that he stands to gain from fighting it to the end, except for wasting time, effort and resolve.

I would say that the first place to start is to begin looking and applying for other posts - you might find that just based on your experience you are employable. Then you can start talking seriously about terminating the contract. Whilst you are doing that, you could look for short courses/diplomas in management/HR/health and safety at the usual places (damelin, intec, unisa etc), which you could even do part time.

I don't know what kind of qualifications relate to this field of work, but I do know that my mother (who doesn't have formal tertiary qualification of any sort) worked in market research for a number of years and was incredibly successful. After resigning she was employed in an HR position that required a lot of input on the Health and Safety side of things. She had absolutely no experience and no qualifications other than first aid level 3, but was hired and also ended up being very successful in that.

edit: Woops, sorry didn't see the last post. Got it right at least ?

Mannemarak

makepeace wrote What I gathered from the explanation: To me it seems as though Mannemarak is unhappy with where he is working for ethical reasons, whatever the outcome of the ethical disagreement he has with the operation, and it seems as though the relationship has already been soiled. I don't think following up on his convictions is his priority, rather getting out asap and moving into a less hostile position. Anyway, as I interpret, it seems its fixed-term contract employment (is it? if so what are the termination conditions?)

I would say that the first place to start is to begin looking and applying for other posts - you might find that just based on your experience you are employable. Then you can start talking seriously about terminating the contract. Whilst you are doing that, you could look for short courses/diplomas in management/HR/health and safety at the usual places (damelin, intec, unisa etc), which you could even do part time.

Thanks for the input, you are correct, but my contract is purely verbal and I have come across changes in the agreement that have not been discussed with me. Anyway,
is courses from any of these other institutions worth it? I have heard of people complaining about open book testing (pointless isn't it) etc.

vic

If you are good with your hands and don't mind doing some "dirty" work on occasion , I would suggest you take a course in eg. Plumbing, electrician, even carpentry....these practitioners always have work and many of them work for themselves. Just a thought.... ?

Mannemarak

Vic wrote If you are good with your hands and don't mind doing some "dirty" work on occasion , I would suggest you take a course in eg. Plumbing, electrician, even carpentry....these practitioners always have work and many of them work for themselves. Just a thought.... ?

I am not overly good with my hands but enjoy fixing things and replacing things, like pipes and install fans etc. my only problem regarding this may be my short temper ?

makepeace

Mannemarak wrote Thanks for the input, you are correct, but my contract is purely verbal and I have come across changes in the agreement that have not been discussed with me. Anyway,
is courses from any of these other institutions worth it? I have heard of people complaining about open book testing (pointless isn't it) etc.

I'm not really sure about damelin or intec, but i did 1 year of a bsc at unisa - which really was quite productive. taught myself some maths and chemistry. and the exams were very objectively run. I'm sure I saw that they have a couple of management short courses.

edit: i can see what you're saying though. there weren't tests as such during the terms, so self-motivation was quite critical.

Miemie

Dunno if it helps,but here in the Eastern Cape the colleges(old appie techs in days gone by) have been branching out in recent years to provide courses in business management and a whole host of computer things.The plus side is that they are government controlled so all certifications or diplomas are the official dept of education ones that have merit anywhere in the country.I'm specifically talking of the colleges that used to cater only for engineering.There should be at least one in your area.By the way,engineering is a good way to go,you only need a N2 and some practical courses to apply for a trade test.Formal apprenticeship is no longer a requirement.
Good luck

Bob-Dubery

I can't remember the names and acronyms right now, but there are IT courses that can be done in one's own time and that are worth something in the industry because the certification process is stringent. They're not easy, but that's why they're well regarded. I'm thinking mostly in the IT auditing and DRP areas. If names come to me (I don't work in those spheres of IT) then I'll post here. But do some googling along those lines.

However, those really set you up for jobs in big corporates and local governnent, so understand the game you are getting into there - even if you want to contract. Big corporates, and even a lot of smaller businesses, will check references rigorously, so have all your back up documents in order. If you say you completed standard 10 at such-and-such high school then have a piece of paper that can be verified and that substantiates what you say.

Don't be dissuaded by or dismissive of open book exams. Even if you have the book, you still have to know what's in it and how to apply it. Indeed, if an exam is open book you are being telegraphed in advance that the examiners are not going to ask questions that you can easily answer with a quick look at the table of contents.

Look for a qualification with a good reputation in the industry. They are still there. Try and find some correlation between job opportunities and qualifications so that you don't bust your behind working towards a qualification that doesn't satisfy a demand in the job market.

And remember, times are tight. You may have to take your existing position for a while longer purely to keep money coming in. It may be a case of like it or lump it. Don't play hard ball unless you have options. I've seen people do the former when they don't have the latter and it's not pretty.

makepeace

Miemie wrote By the way,engineering is a good way to go,you only need a N2 and some practical courses to apply for a trade test.Formal apprenticeship is no longer a requirement.

and many employers and experienced artisans abhor this.. i've also had personal experience of people struggling dearly in the industry because of it. i would not suggest this route unless you're sure that your working environment will be patient and understanding.

vic

There are too many managers and too few skilled people to do the job/s that this country needs IMHO. The IT business ?.....isn't it a bit saturated ? So many companies nowadays offer in-house training for their specific needs....??.

If I had to start all over again I certainly would strongly consider doing one or other trade

V8

What would Machiavelli do?

http://www.amazon.com/What-Would-Machiavelli-Justify-Meanness/dp/0066620104

He'd keep the job in the intermin, take the $ while setting up alternative income streams/work opourtunities.

I went through something similar this time last year - lost my temper somewhat at some dodgy business and stalked out of a well paid IT job. Regrets...initially yes. Did we kiss and make up, eventually yes. I ain't going to work there again, but it's such a small industry in SA it would sily to burn bridges (again :-[)

Wish I had read this business flavouring of Machiavelli before I quit though ?

Best of luck finding something that suits - I was dreaming of playing bass for a cruise ship band...!

vic

V8 wrote What would Machiavelli do?

http://www.amazon.com/What-Would-Machiavelli-Justify-Meanness/dp/0066620104

He'd keep the job in the intermin, take the $ while setting up alternative income streams/work opourtunities.

I went through something similar this time last year - lost my temper somewhat at some dodgy business and stalked out of a well paid IT job. Regrets...initially yes. Did we kiss and make up, eventually yes. I ain't going to work there again, but it's such a small industry in SA it would sily to burn bridges (again :-[)

Wish I had read this business flavouring of Machiavelli before I quit though ?

Best of luck finding something that suits - I was dreaming of playing bass for a cruise ship band...!

You gotta plan for the long-term future as well. Will bass playing afford you a "pension" one day ? :-\ ?

RJN

Hey , Why dont you just go do your MCSE upgrade exams to MCITP ? , update your CV on Pnet , sorted.

Mannemarak

RJN wrote Hey , Why dont you just go do your MCSE upgrade exams to MCITP ? , update your CV on Pnet , sorted.

Guess I can but not sure if I want to do IT the rest of my life, not saying I am picky, I am actually considering this but getting job means I will definitely have to move, since IT in this town is dead, no matter the qualification. But then again, doing the safety thing will have me move too.
And is it still worth doing the MSCE type things? will it help doing maybe Cisco certification or not?

V8

Vic wrote
V8 wrote Best of luck finding something that suits - I was dreaming of playing bass for a cruise ship band...!
You gotta plan for the long-term future as well. Will bass playing afford you a "pension" one day ? :-\ ?

Hahaha, very good point...especially considering I know precious few covers. Although, jokes aside - there are dollars to be earned, so it's possible with some discipline and forward thought.

I've a few irons in the proverbial fire - a few longer term, a few more shorter term. But if I were to get a oppourtunity, I can take advantage. Luckily - no wife, kids, morgage or significant debt to service. But guitars do need new strings and one's gotta eat.

Short term contracts are my thing at the moment, a few days/weeks here and there sorting out other peoples messes - long enough to cover the bills and short enough not to get irritable with corporate irrationality. In between I work on other idea's and upgrade skills (working on a Proj Management online course to earn some Prince2 paperwork).

strataxe

X-rated Bob wrote RE my last comment above. I say this as somebody who works in an office that includes somebody who recently made derogatory comments about her work colleagues on Facebook - and had to face the consequences. We have also had people at the company where I currently work making comments on FB about their sexual practices and posting pictures of themselves in minimal clothing. Things get around quickly. Regret can last a lot longer.

Not to go off topic... but I never mix work and facebook. Don't add collegues to my friends...WORK - KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL!!!

Bob-Dubery

strataxe wrote
X-rated Bob wrote RE my last comment above. I say this as somebody who works in an office that includes somebody who recently made derogatory comments about her work colleagues on Facebook - and had to face the consequences. We have also had people at the company where I currently work making comments on FB about their sexual practices and posting pictures of themselves in minimal clothing. Things get around quickly. Regret can last a lot longer.
Not to go off topic... but I never mix work and facebook. Don't add collegues to my friends...WORK - KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL!!!

Well you never know how things are going to work out. I accepted a friend request from somebody I knew from outside of my work. But two of his friends turned out to be ladies who do work for the same company and as me and who like to post pictures of themselves dressed and behaving in ways you wouldn't expect to see at the office.