DrGonzo
Ok so after a couple of weeks of selling and hustling i may just about have enough to get a solid microphone...
Here are my options i have narrowed it down to...
The TUL f47 and or T12.
Neumann TLM103
AKg C414 b ULS (second hand)
perhaps an audio technica model? (at4050)
Langevin CR-2001 (manley)
all mics i can get sub R8k which is my budget
the thing is I have really spent quite alot this year on audio toys so this is gonna be my last big purchase for a quite a while, so im looking for a good all rounder mic, that can handle vocals and pretty much most other sources quite well.. i will not be getting another mic for quite a few months.
I really like the TUL f47, but i feel it is quite specific to vocals and its upper midrange presence perhaps not so suited to alot of other sources. but still a strong contender.
I have not heard the neumann or the AKG, but all research points me towards the AKG c414 (the older model) as it seems to be a general workhorse and i really do want switchable polar patterns... so this one seems to fit all my criteria.
Anyone here used the AKG? I can get one for just over R6k which ill actually be quite a bit cheaper than the TUL f47... the only problem is its not usually wise to buy something blind and especially since i wont have any warranty etc over it. it would be a model from the 90's... the B-ULS... they new ones will be about 10-11k
Also any other suggestions?
I would really love to organise a big mic shootout sometime soon, I know a great space nearby with awesome high end preamps and monitors to test it out, just need to get ahold of the mics!!
AlanRatcliffe
The C414 is a really great all rounder mic - probably second only to the all-mighty U87 for usefulness and flexibility. It loses points on vocals for me but does a good job even there and sometimes is just the right mic for a specific voice.
Opinion is split on the TLM103 - I've only used one briefly and found it similar to a U87, with a similar pickiness about preamps - it's magic when you have the right preamp, but can sound less than inspiring with a cheap or the wrong pre.
I hear good things about the AT4050, but have no direct experience with them. I also have no knowledge of the Manley Langevin mics.
Given just the mics above, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 414 - it'll stay in your collection even when you add 47's and 87's. However, the T12 is the cat amongst the pigeons, I loved what I heard from the clips you posted, I'd really want to check it out thoroughly (in fact, at that price I'd be tempted to grab one anyway). I also think the T47 is a bit too specific for a first major-league mic (but would be a strong contender for the second mic I bought).
But what do I know? I use a Rode NTK valve mic a lot of the time... ? I can say that when mics reach the top of my gear wishlist again, I'll be checking out the Tuls (if the prices haven't skyrocketed by then).
DrGonzo
Thanks for your feedback allan!
I feel i may end up going for the AKG, its just a bit of a risky purpose seem as tho the mic will be about 15years old and bought form overseas, no warranty etc...
I wish i could just test on out and AB the characteristics etc... anyone here on the forum perhaps have one and would be keen for a shootout?
The T12 is very nice indeed, very tempting at that price as well! both that and the c414 are based/modelled on the AKG c12 tho, so i wonder if it would sound similar to the c414...!!
AlanRatcliffe
DrGonzo wrote:
I feel i may end up going for the AKG, its just a bit of a risky purpose seem as tho the mic will be about 15years old and bought form overseas, no warranty etc...
Eep! Yeah - that would be a concern for me too.
The T12 is very nice indeed, very tempting at that price as well! both that and the c414 are based/modelled on the AKG c12 tho, so i wonder if it would sound similar to the c414...!!
The C12 and original vintage C414 had a very different and expensive to make capsule. The capsule found in the newer C414s (like the B-ULS and even on the reissue C12) is very different to the original. So I suppose it would depend on how close Tully's capsule is - if it's a Peluso CEK12 it will sound more like the modern 414, if it's a Tim Campbell CT12, it will sound more like the vintage C12. Then again, there are also differences with the transformers, valves and circuits too...
Arno-West
DrGonzo wrote:
Thanks for your feedback allan!
I feel i may end up going for the AKG, its just a bit of a risky purpose seem as tho the mic will be about 15years old and bought form overseas, no warranty etc...
I wish i could just test on out and AB the characteristics etc... anyone here on the forum perhaps have one and would be keen for a shootout?
The T12 is very nice indeed, very tempting at that price as well! both that and the c414 are based/modelled on the AKG c12 tho, so i wonder if it would sound similar to the c414...!!
I've got a matched pair of C414's for you to try out. They're pretty new, less than 3 years old. We use them to record just about everything. Chase the through a Focusrite panelstrip. Very good mics. PM me if you want to test drive them.
DrGonzo
Arno West wrote:
I've got a matched pair of C414's for you to try out. They're pretty new, less than 3 years old. We use them to record just about everything. Chase the through a Focusrite panelstrip. Very good mics. PM me if you want to test drive them.
Hey Arno, Man, LEGEND! that would really help me out my decision sooo much man. PM'd..
I smell a grand mic shootout!
DrGonzo
Added to the list:
SE Z5600a II tube condensor... i can get this at an absolutely stupid discount, and it looks like a great mic. anyone had any experience with this?
I don't like the 2200 or 3300a in that i find them a bit bright and thin, but i can imagine a tube version would smooth out the tops a bit and beefed it up a bit.
Big-G
Just to add my 2c's worth whilst I have a brief gap where Telkom are actually providing me with an internet service (keep coming and going on and off)....
Out of the mics you have listed, the Tul's would be top of my list, simply for 'cost to performance' ratio alone. I went to see Tully last friday, and spent a good deal of time comparing the T12, f47 and a few of my mic's, and i have to say I was impressed. Their tonal character is quite 'something', and quite 'something' that I liked. I found the T12 to be a little brighter than the f47, but still very warm, well rounded and smooth. The f47 provided more low frequency information, infact impressively low end information, but never sounded boomy. I would seriously think that either of these would be a seriously good choice, and would be a valuable asset in anyones mic arsenal. If I had to choose only one mic, and had the extra cash, I would definately go with the f47, but mainly for the added low end response, as it would be great for my bass gear! The f47 is a mic which I could see myself turning to for just about anything, as a kind of 'one mic does all' solution. It may not excel at everything, but I would be confident at getting a very usable sound from it in any situation. Having said that, I did only get to spend an hour or so with it. Hardly enough time to really test it out.
As for the C414, consider that there are several models available, and not all of them sound the same. I believe the B-ULS is one of the 'lesser' sounding models, and not a patch on some of the others, so I'd be very cautious buying without being able to try it first, especially used.
The TLM-103 is a mic that I am very fond of..... I spent a good while back in the UK using this mic on Vocals, acoustics and even guitar amps, and got good results with it, but it can sound a little bright or rather brittle at times, and the price that they now fetch is too expensive for what it is in my opinion.
Another mic I used as an all rounder in the studio was the AT-4033a. If the AT-4050 is anything like this mic, it could be a good option. Again, I got good results on acoustics and vocals, often in combination with the TLM103. I would certainly like to have one in my mic cupboard, but I don't know if I could choose that as my only mic?
The SE5600a (FET version) has got quite mixed reviews, and even some very poor ones, but on paper it should have been a great mic as it shares the same capsule as the dual valve based 'gemini'. Adding a valve into the 5600 should be a decent step up, providing a nice rounding effect to the sound, but having heard the Tul's 'valve like' tone, I would still opt for tehm, but that would really depend on what price you can get the SE for? I know down here the 2200T (tube version of 2200a) fetches R6k+! That straight away puts you back into Tul territory.
Another possible option would be the Avantone mics. I have the CK-1, which is a fantastic little mic, but definately not an 'allrounder'. Its fantastic on acoustics, and I've used it with some success on guitar amps (live), and I;m very happy with it, but I would not opt for that mic for much else other than over heads. But then this mic only cost me R1600ish. The Avantone to look out for is the CV-12. Its based on the AKG C12, and is valve based. At R5kish, its worth a consideration.
Personally, given the choice, and the fact that you won't be buying another for quite some time, and factoring all things in (cost, ability, etc) I would either go with the Tul f47, or split my options and get two mics in either the Tul T12 and Avantone CV-12, or the TUl T12 and AT-4033a. I love the TLM103, but they are just way overpriced.
Hope this helps a little?
Regards
G!
DrGonzo
Hey Big G, thanks man, I appreciate the response...
I hear what you say... the f47 is definitely tempting... as i said i have had mixed results on vocals but majority good, it was mostly just the voice over ladies' voice that was the problem i think... on everything else i have used it on thus far it has turned out to be great. I can imagine that this, paired up with a great mic preamp, would be amazing.
Did you actually get to AB it against a real U47 or other high end mics? from what frodo said, that most ppl preferred it to the U87 and C414 at SAE, but my brain really doesn't want to believe that, but at the same time does, if ya know what i mean!
regarding the C414, i thought the B-ULS as I read a lengthy SOS article where they demoed about 12 different mics on 4 different vocalists and on every verdict the C414 came out in the TOP 3 and it was that specific model.
The thing is the SE is unbelievably tempting as i can get it for a whopping 50% off. so I'm looking at about R4500. for a multi pattern tube mic... so hmm that definitely throws a spanner in the works.
In any case tomorrow I have a vocal recording session to do and I am gonna AB the SE5600 vs the TULf47... as well as on the weekend on a female vocalist, so this should give me a good idea of the sonic characteristics of these 2 mics.
I wish i could try out a 4033a, it seems they are a great option and well priced.. the thing is I am not gonna go for a mic i have not personally tested out. I have made far too many regrettable purchase decisions in the past...
Big-G
Hi Gonzo... Sorry Imissed this reply.....
It's interesting what you say about the B-ULS. Don't get me wrong, ALL the C414 range are decent and very capable mics, and would be an asset to anyones collection, but for a one stop mic, personally I would choose something else.
As for the Neumann U87, I'm actually not a great fan.... Again a very capable all rounder, but again, I feel there's better 'tone' to be had. The f47 is just about as close to the u47 as one can get without actually owning an U47. I'm never going to say its 'as good' as the u47, but considering the price difference, I'd take the 'near as' f47 in an instant, IF thats the kind of benchmark you are aiming for? I didn't actually get to AB the nuemanns next to the Tul's, but I have a good memory for sound. The T12 is perhaps a little more modern sounding than the original C12, but still, close enough 'for jazz'.... I just found its lower end response not quite as warm as the original C12. I'm yet to hear the Avantone CV-12 in action, so I can't comment here, but the reviews I've heard are that again for the money its a great mic, but its never going to be C12. When, or rather IF, you can get an original C12, nothing can touch it!
The SE sounds like a real option at that price, and I'd be interested to hear your opinion of it after the shoot out? Infact, at that price, I may be asking you to get me one too! Hehe! I had been considering the FET version of the z5600 as I could get it for R4k ish, but the reviews put me off, and with the T12 and CV-12 being in the same price range, I'd all but dismissed it, but a tube version may just change that?
And finally, Audio Technica.... The 4050 is supposed to be a better mic than the 4033a, so if thats true, it should be decent, but again, I can't help but feel that for the money, there are better options out there? Last I checked, the 4033a was around R7k, and the 4050 more? Again, that puts you straight back in the f47's back yard.
Sorry if I'm not making things any easier, but keep me posted with your decision? Perhaps given the prices and options you have, I'd be favouring two mics.... The Tul T12 (or maybe Avant CV-12) and the SE z5600 tube? This would then give you theversatility of having two 'go to' mics which can be used together. Infact one technique that can work nicely is to place both mics tip to tip, one inverted and one the right way, so that their diaphragms are directly above each other, then record the vocal through two mics. Then you can choose the nicest sounding track, or blend both for a fuller sound? Obviously you can't do that with one mic.
Regards
G!
Sneaky-Pete
If you'll forgive me for saying so...this is like buying a guitar by picking out the one in the window that appeals to you.
Because every voice is different, the same mic will sound different with different singers.
You absolutely have to sing into every mic that's on your list. And the pre-amp plays a critical part as well. In fact, the best-informed decision you could make is try every mic with a specific pre-amp, until you find the mic/pre combination that's right for you.
Over the last 25 years of home studio recording, I've tried a lot of different ones, but stopped 4 years ago when I got a new AKG SolidTube for a great price. Reason why I chose it...For the first time in my life my voice through the AKG in the headphones sounded exactly the same as the voice I hear in my head when I'm singing without any equipment.
I did however add a little tweak to the AKG by replacing the 12ax7 tube with an 12at7 one...lower gain level, which means when you push it it gets creamier...(as the actress said to the bishop)...
