PA Volume issues, cable possibly?

VellaJ

So we're currently using a friend's PA setup for practice at the moment, mainly for vocals. It's a powered mixer (IIRC a Phonic PowerPod 402) which seems pretty decent but I can't seem to find anything on the web about it. Can find the 410, but it's different.

Now we're using dynamic mics into the 1/4" "line in" jack and then sending the output into a single 15" speaker. We're maxing the level on the mixer, but we can barely hear ourselves over the drums. Now considering I can't actually find specs for the mixer, I don't actually know what the power rating is. If, as I suspect, the PPP410 is the updated version of the 402, it would be 100W a side, but that's purely guesswork.

Now I would think 100W should lift a couple of mics above the drums, so I'm confused. I have 3 possible ideas why this could be happening:
1) We've only connected a single speaker to the setup, thus losing the benefit of the other "side"
2) For some reason, this powered mixer needs a separate pre-amp between the mics and the input.
3) Now if I've done wrong, don't lynch me, I know nothing about PA. I've connected the speaker to the PPP using a regular guitar cable. Could this be causing a volume loss? I would never attempt that kind of thing with a guitar amp, I have proper speaker cable for that, but I wasn't expecting that from a PA setup.

Any clues gurus?

AlanRatcliffe

Those little four input 100W mixer/amps (from any manufacturer) are mono, so it's 100W in total. That's also 100W into 4 Ohms, so with one cab you are only getting 50W out. Add to that the fact that most cheaper amps are a little er... optimistic at best with their specs and that cheaper loudspeakers are not usually the most efficient either and it all adds up to a system with limited capabilities.

And yes, instrument cables are very different to speaker cables. You should rather use some 10 or 15A mains cable for speakers before you use instrument cable - it usually works pretty well (but the downside is it does not coil as nicely as speaker cable).

VellaJ

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Those little four input 100W mixer/amps (from any manufacturer) are mono, so it's 100W in total. That's also 100W into 4 Ohms, so with one cab you are only getting 50W out. Add to that the fact that most cheaper amps are a little er... optimistic at best with their specs and that cheaper loudspeakers are not usually the most efficient either and it all adds up to a system with limited capabilities.

Thanks Alan. So basically we should be using both speakers if we want some more volume? I don't think the speakers are associated with the mixer, they seem pretty decent.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote And yes, instrument cables are very different to speaker cables. You should rather use some 10 or 15A mains cable for speakers before you use instrument cable - it usually works pretty well (but the downside is it does not coil as nicely as speaker cable).

I have speaker cable which I use for my Peavey amp into my 412 cab, would this work?

AlanRatcliffe

VellaJ wrote Thanks Alan. So basically we should be using both speakers if we want some more volume?

Yup - that'll get the most power out of the amp.

I have speaker cable which I use for my Peavey amp into my 412 cab, would this work?

Yes. But then it begs the question what are you going to use for your Peavey? ?

Something else I forgot to mention is that most 2-way 15" speakers have a bit of a dip in the upper midrange that affects the intelligibility of the vocals - I've always preferred 12" cabs for small systems or monitors for this reason.

Averatu

A guy I knew bought Phonic head and warfdale cabs and wanted to test it out, offered to do a gig for us. 5 songs in the head was vibrating and enmiting smoke, and the consensus was that the sound that night was horrible. Cheap gear.

VellaJ

I'll pop in on Ronnie up here if necessary, he's usually got some decently priced cable. But it looks like we're going to upgrade the system at some stage, so I'll see how it goes...

TomCat

Thread revival....... ? ?

Dynamic mics won't do much plugged into line inputs.....the sensitivity is too low.....

If the unit has mic inputs with XLR (Cannon) connectors then you need to have a proper balanced microphone cable for each mic.
This will give you the correct gain through the mixer to drive the PA properly.

And yes....loudspeaker cables from the amp to the loudspeakers.....high current stuff as Alan has said.....