Bass Di passive vs active

Freddy-Bl00D

So i've been doing research and scratching my head a little to figure these boxes out and to find out what i need, i've read articles on radial's site but i still have a few questions..

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/di-basics.php
http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/selecting-dis.php

So according to these articles the general rule is that you get a passive di for a active bass because it can handle high output signals without distorting and you generally use a active di with a passive bass because it gives you that little extra "oomph"

So I play a Fender Jaguar Bass and a Music Man Stingray5, these two are pretty much opposites when it comes to tone and pickups, i want to buy one di to use with both of them.. So im thinking the di will be the last component you go into before your signal reaches the desk (all your effects come before the di) so if i have a outboard preamp like a VT Bass in my chain in front of a passive di it will add the oomh i need in the signal of my passive bass?
But will that spoil the tone of my passive bass making it sound more active then passive due to the preamp?

If i have no idea what im talking about and not making sense please correct me
Thanks guys

AlanRatcliffe

Freddy-Bl00D wrote: So im thinking the di will be the last component you go into before your signal reaches the desk (all your effects come before the di) so if i have a outboard preamp like a VT Bass in my chain in front of a passive di it will add the oomh i need in the signal of my passive bass?

OK. First you need to bear in mind that a DI has two main functions - to convert a high impedance signal to a low-z one (that a mixing desk is happy with) and to provide a balanced signal (which allows long cable runs without interference). So strictly speaking, if you have a low-z signal already and do not need a balanced signal, you do not really need a DI box. The outputs of active basses or most effects are already low-z so can be plugged right into the desk without the need for a DI unless you need a balanced output for a snake's stage box.

But will that spoil the tone of my passive bass making it sound more active then passive due to the preamp?

No - because the VT bass is an amp sim and responds to the basses (active or passive) pretty much the way an amp does. It also doubles as a DI with a low-z output. If you need a balanced output, then you would run into a DI (or get the "Pro" version of the VT, which has a balanced output).

charleshaupt

As a bassist,i,ve used D.I. boxes manufactured by 'LEEM' ,also used one by"BERRINGER".Both were lower priced units imho,but got the job done succesfully,it all depends on your needs....

Big-G

I think the best way to answer this is to know what your intended use for the DI is? Is it for 'live' work on stage running through a desk? Home studio setup?

I personally prefer the Active DI's, as they effectively give you more 'headroom', but the downside is that they require power, whether thats from a 9v battery, 'Phantom power' (+48v) from desk, or its own power transformer? I don't like using batteries at all if its avoidable, as you never know if the power they provide is clean, or at the correct strength to give hte optimum signal, so I tend to use them powered from the mixing desk.

For bass, there are many options, and in honesty, it all comes down to budget!? The choice is almost limitless. I use DBX DB12 active boxes, for just about everything (acoustic guitar, electric violin, keyboards, occasionally bass, etc) on stage at my church, and they are great, but costly! Another costly option, and probably the most versatile for bass is the 'Tech 21 Sansamp BassDI'. It has lots of sound customising options built in, so can be tweaked to suit the bass plugged in. Then there's a multitude of bass manufacturers offering DI's, including Ashdown, Markbass, Trace Elliot etc. All good options.

The one I would avoid, after many years experience, is Behringer. Whilst they are cheap and cheerful, and can perform reasonably, generally this is at the cost of background noise, and often I find quite a lot of hiss has been introduced through their DI's.

Art also make reasonable DI's for slightly more than the Behringer, and seem to perform more cleanly than them too? They also seem to be quite well made, and get good reviews for their reliability. I have however, just had to send one I bought at the end of last year for repairs, as one of the channels distorts. Most likely a dry joint or something, but I never open equipment thats still under gaurantee. I seem to be one of the few who have gotten a defective unit though.

So, the skies really your limit, and I guess it comes down to your requirements and budget?

Hope that helps a little?
Regards
G!

Freddy-Bl00D

The main reason i want/need the DI is for live work.. Small venues dont always have space for a bass amp on stage aswell or im too lazy to transport my 40kg+ amp to a venue.. So about 80% of the times I run through a venues DI.. I always prefer using my own gear, that way i know its good quality and ideal for my setup.. So i will rather get my own DI to use so i am sure its high quality..
Im not always running pedals in my signal so even if some of my pedals like the VT Bass offer a low-z signal i dont want to feel i have to always run it to get the Low-z signal..

My question is basicly whether active or passive DI's should be combined accordingly to passive and active basses... The radial website seems to think it is very important..

AlanRatcliffe

Freddy-Bl00D wrote: My question is basicly whether active or passive DI's should be combined accordingly to passive and active basses...

And my answer is basically no.

The radial website seems to think it is very important..

It is - but to their profit margin. ? It's in their best interest to tell you that you need a DI - even when you don't. Choose one good DI you like and use it for both. If you want an amp sim and tone/drive controls etc., get one of the Tech 21 combo amp sim/DI boxes.

Freddy-Bl00D

Haha thanks alan guess i shouldn't believe everything on the net..
Okay one more question I promise..

So some of the other DIs im looking at like the mxr m-80 are like stompboxes with eq's and they can be toggled to be 'engaged - disengaged' so obviously the DI function of the pedal is still on while the pedal is disengaged, so is it in theory like a bass with a active passive switch? While its engaged the preamp is on and the di is 'active' and while its disengaged the preamp is bypassed making it 'passive'?

AlanRatcliffe

If the DI is on, you are active. The whole point of a DI is to convert to lowZ, the same thing an active circuit in a bass does. So what you are describing is more like a bass with an active tone circuit and an active preamp. Bypass the tone circuit and the bass is still active.

Freddy-Bl00D

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: If the DI is on, you are active. The whole point of a DI is to convert to lowZ, the same thing an active circuit in a bass does. So what you are describing is more like a bass with an active tone circuit and an active preamp. Bypass the tone circuit and the bass is still active.

Thanks Alan, i'll go test drive some of the pedals in the next month or so and go with my gut feeling

Big-G

Sorry I'm a bit late responding to this! Had a massively crazy week!

For the 'needs' you list, then I would wholeheartedly recommend the Sansamp Bass DI. It gives you the active DI that allows higher headroom on the signal compared to passive DI's, and also has the tone controls on there, which you could set according to your passive bass, and switch off when using active bass. So as Alan states, its like having an active preamp fitted to your passive bass, only its actually in the pedal, rather than the basses body.

So, to just make it clear.... Whether the DI (or bass for that matter) is active or passive, is irrelevant, both will work fine, but just bare in mind that the active gives you more headroom, and potentially more clarity than the passive, but at the same time, the drawback is that it requires 'phantom power', or at least a battery, or power supply to run. I'd say that this was a fair trade-off for the extra benefit of the active circuit.

This would be my route, otherwise, I'd suggest selling your rig, and buying a lighter weight one. There's plenty of lightweight (and smaller, but still potent) options out there.

Hope that helps?
Regards
G!

Freddy-Bl00D

Thanks for the response Big G.. Everytime i makeup my mind something new pops up haha..

Im abit too attached to my rig right now to sell it or scale it down... I just want more and more.. Typical youngster mentality i know..

I spoke to a guy today that has quite a collection of bass pedals which he is selling and between them he has a Ravens Lab APB-1 DI.. Its a pretty straightforward DI but its not a 'Stompbox'... It has a FX loop which i can blend for wet/dry signal which I really dig, im thinking a Disgusting Fuzz pedal in the FX loop combined with the dry signal will sound beast ? the other alternative would be something like the sansamp with a line selector but then things get a little messy..
The guy also has a EBS Microbass ii which looks like a amazing DI but i think at almost 3 x the price of the Ravens Lab its not really worth it..
But the Marshall Music sale is in 6days so GAS is pumping and i really dont know which way to go haha.. I'll post what I decided to go with and what i think about it by next friday.