Electronics on nylon string

ConradP

Hi all

I have a certain Yamaha nylon string that I use alot for flamenco. Now it has some piezo pickup under the bridge. With the flamenco material, I am required to do alot of percussive things on the body but this is hardly audible over the PA.

Now I have seen another guitar duet do the same on a nylon string (also with piezo pickup) but when the guitarist's palm hits the body, there is a sound like a nice acoustic kick drum. So I spoke to these guys and even fiddled with the guitar myself and if you even tap the bridge with your finger, you get a "thump".

How do I get my guitar to do that?

Conrad

AlanRatcliffe

The best way to do this is to fit a dual system that incorporates a piezo saddle transducer AND an internal mic. These tend to give more of a natural representation of an acoustic anyway and can be balanced to give you more or less of the body tapping (as well as to control feedback in high volume settings).

There are ways to make the piezo pickup installation more microphonic - we used to use these methods before dual systems came on the market. But generally, this means a trade-off with feedback resistance, which is often a bad thing for stage use.

ConradP

I was hoping you would answer Alan LOL. OK see these acoustic gigs are rarely high volume but I would rather have the dual system to control the level of the percussion then. Have you got any idea as to the cost and maybe what brand of mic I should be using?

AlanRatcliffe

To be honest, I'm completely out of touch. Last time I looked at some of the lower models in the Fishman Matrix and Prefix range I was pleasantly surprised by how much cheaper they had become since I was fitting them. I didn't look at the blender (dual) models though, so you'd be best off enquiring at the shops and doing some homework.

Lethe

I've been wanting at a pickup for my yamaha nylon for a while now for the same reasons as you. Any advice on what pieze pickup i should get? And if you get any info on prices etc on those dual systems, would you mind letting me know?

ConradP

Lethe wrote I've been wanting at a pickup for my yamaha nylon for a while now for the same reasons as you. Any advice on what pieze pickup i should get? And if you get any info on prices etc on those dual systems, would you mind letting me know?

Sure. I'll keep u posted.

Lethe

thank you , kind sir ?

ConradP

OK what I have so far is that the Yamaha (same as mine) with the dual system is about R7.5K where mine was R3K.
The guys at the shop also warned me about feedback because of the mic? Anyway, I am also enquiring about better piezos now.
BTW what is the difference between a 1 way piezo and a 2 way piezo?

I'll keep you posted on whatever else I find out.

Conrad

Lethe

i am ignorant when it comes to all that gadgetry stuff. sorry...

Gearhead

We have installed a Dean Markley piezo pickup in my Fender DG3 and I seem to recall it also picking up tapping on the top. I say recall because it went dead and I haven't yet taken the time to fix it. They are notorious for doing this yet sound REALLY good for a LOT less than Fishmans.

AlanRatcliffe

ConradP wrote The guys at the shop also warned me about feedback because of the mic?

Mics are more prone to feedback at volume than piezos - that's simply the nature of the beast. But a dual system has a blender that lets you mix the two together and balance them for the situation. In high volume situations (not always a problem in acoustic-oriented situations) you dial in less mic, which helps avoid the feedback at the expense of some "air", and some of the volume of the tapping. Medium to low volumes and you are free to blend the two as you like.

BTW what is the difference between a 1 way piezo and a 2 way piezo?

Haven't heard those terms used before - in reference to which make/model? Two way could refer to a multiple transducer like the stereo KK Hot Spot that has two transducers (quite difficult to fit without phasing issues - like using two mics on the same source). It could also refer to the mic and piezo combinations we've been discussing.

ConradP

@Alan I don't know but on the Yamaha site they just describe the one acoustic's pickup as "System45N (2-way piezo pickup & condensor mic)".

Conrad

AlanRatcliffe

ConradP wrote @Alan I don't know but on the Yamaha site they just describe the one acoustic's pickup as "System45N (2-way piezo pickup & condensor mic)".

I think they mean "2-way pickup: piezo & condensor mic".

ConradP

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
ConradP wrote @Alan I don't know but on the Yamaha site they just describe the one acoustic's pickup as "System45N (2-way piezo pickup & condensor mic)".
I think they mean "2-way pickup: piezo & condensor mic".

OK. Probably yes. Thanks Alan.

ConradP

Hi Guys

OK you told me to keep you updated. I have decided on the following pickup: http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_dualsource.shtml.

I will have to bring it in from the U.S.

I consulted a very good local guitar tech and also corresponded with L.R. Baggs and Fishman and said that I would want the pickup to represent the percussion on the body of the guitar as well as what happens on the strings.

I eventually had 2 options: A new pickup called the I-Beam or this dual system. L.R. Baggs advised that this will yield a more faithful sound of what I am doing on the body of the guitar since it has a condensor mic stuck to the body. It turns out to be slightly cheaper than the I-beam.

Conrad

Bob-Dubery

ConradP wrote Hi Guys

OK you told me to keep you updated. I have decided on the following pickup: http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_dualsource.shtml.

I will have to bring it in from the U.S.

Andy McGibbons Guitar World in Randburg have definitely fitted the dual source system before - so they might have them in stock or have a source. So maybe you want to check it out with them.

ConradP

Bob Dubery wrote
ConradP wrote Hi Guys

OK you told me to keep you updated. I have decided on the following pickup: http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_dualsource.shtml.

I will have to bring it in from the U.S.

Andy McGibbons Guitar World in Randburg have definitely fitted the dual source system before - so they might have them in stock or have a source. So maybe you want to check it out with them.

I did find some dual systems in SA but only for steel string. The transducer has to be slightly longer for a nylon string. Some friends have tried to get similar pickups through Andy to no avail so I will probably have to go this route although I would have liked it if Andy could help me.