NGD: Vintage V100AFD Paradise

AlanRatcliffe · 2012-05-24T02:30:57+00:00

I've been wanting to pick up an inexpensive Les Paul for a while as, while I don't really regard myself as a LP player, it's nice to have one around to get those tones that only an LP can do convincingly. It also gives me a more traditional humbucker guitar to try out amps and pickups (that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it...). A Tokai Love Rock has been on my shopping list for a couple of years now (and still is), but I never seem to get around to it as when I have the money, there is usually something higher up the want/need list that trumps it. And lower down the price scale, the wood choices, electronics or hardware tend to veer a bit too far away from the LP spec. So when the recent TID sale drew my attention to the Vintage guitars, I had a look and discovered the V100AFD Paradise, which unlike the other V100s has a maple cap under the flame veneer. A bit more money too, but not a lot more and still relatively very inexpensive. So I took a chance and ordered one. If it looks a little familiar, that's because it is modelled after a very particular Les Paul: Yes, that's right - it's a copy of the guitar the leathern-top-hatted one used to record Appetite for Destruction (hence AFD), including Paradise City (hence "Paradise". Geddit?). I was a bit unsure before I ordered as I would really have liked a different colour from my other guitars (which it seems are all shades of yellows, ambers and honeybursts and with more flame maple in evidence than one man should own), but colour is one of the last things I worry about (after name on the headstock), and it's attractive anyway... so I bit. Published specs: Body: Soild Mahogany Top: Flamed Maple Veneer & Carved Maple Cap Neck: Mahogany Neck Join: Set Neck Fingerboard: Rosewood Scale: 24.75”/ 628mm Frets: 22 Neck Inlays: Pearloid Crown Tuners: Wilkinson Deluxe WJ44 Chrome Bridge: Tune-O-Matic Pickups: Wilkinson WVHZ Humbucker x 2 Hardware: Chrome Controls: 2 x Volume/ 2 x Tone/ 3-Way Toggle Accessories: Straplocks ..all of which loosely translates to "it's a Les Paul", without giving me really meaningful specs as to exactly what kind of Les Paul in a way that is meaningful to me (neck profile, neck thickness, body weight, 1/4"or 1/8" maple cap, etc.). So... proof, pudding and tastings time. First impressions First thing I noticed about the Paradise was the weight - it feels like a Les Paul should, substantial, but not a '70s boat anchor either. The top is more yellow than the amber most pics show. First inspection revealed the fit and finish is all good with no major flaws. Body Overall thickness is correct and the shape is close, with just a slightly sharper point on the cutaway than the real deal. The veneer top is fairly attractive with a bold flame. The flame is very one-dimensional, but I don't expect anything better in this price range. The top itself is not a full 1/4" thick, so is probably 1/8". The back turns out to be a two piece (not bad), joined off-centre and not grain matched, but no major flaws either. Neck The neck is surprisingly chunky - something like the '59 roundback shape, I'd guess about .87" thick (22mm) at the first fret (I haven't measured it yet though). I like it a lot. The fingerboard is a bit plain and quite dry (or rather, was ?). The fret job is quite good (frets are a little rough, but leveled nicely) and the inlays are well done. Hardware The bridge and tailpiece are both excellent quality, the nut is synthetic, but seems decent. The tuners are a little cheap looking, but seem to hold well enough for now. Plastic parts are mostly quite good (although the curve of the pickup surrounds doesn't quite match that of the top). The strap locks are of the type that use ball-bearings, which I don't trust (thanks to a traumatic experience in my formative years), so they've already been replaced by a set of Schallers. Electronics The Wilkinson pickups are quite good - better than I expect in this price range ( I haven't measured DC resistance yet). The rest of the electronics are pretty much what I expected - cheap and cheerful with no problems, but worth an upgrade. Cavities are screened with paint, but the back of the cavity covers are not. Setup The setup surprises me. It is not perfect, but is most of the way there - far better than on most more expensive instruments. The guitar plays really well out of the box. But I'm a fussy b#tard, even then, I only had to slack off the truss a touch (to be expected with the change in climate) and tweak the nut slots ever so slightly to get it to perfection. Sound The guitar is quite resonant and lively and the pickups are good enough to make good of it. It's a rockier LP with a bit of grunt in the bridge pickup and all the classic rock tones are there. Summary For the money, this is a pretty wonderful guitar and an amazing deal. Yes, I've heard and played better, but not at anywhere near the price. It's not going to stop me lusting after and getting an LS160 one day, but it's a great placeholder and there is a little room for upgrades too (nut, tuners, pickups).

AlanRatcliffe

No changes yet - it's good enough stock that I'm in no huge rush to make changes (which is possibly the highest praise I could give any guitar in this price range). Anyway, I've been horribly busy lately. Still, it was one of the first three guitars out of the case after the move.

lapdawg

Thats good to here, especially as I have a lefty lemondrop arriving shortly. I have actually been aware of the good press the Vintage have been receiving for a while & have been trying to get my hands on one for a while. Great news that they look after lefties. Great news that there is an importer in SA.

Alan - any advice on getting a case? I have lety Marinello custom and the case is a shocking fit. When the guitar sits in the case, the middle is raised. I hav padded a bit, but its not ideal.

What case do you use? Is a standard LP case OK?

AlanRatcliffe

lapdawg wrote What case do you use? Is a standard LP case OK?

A standard LP case is fine. I'm using an SKB56, which is nice (a bit of overkill for this guitar maybe) - a very snug fit.

I have to say it - I'm still very impressed with this guitar. I was playing it again last night and recently got a chance to compare it to an Epi Standard and it came up trumps. So it's worth hanging on to and doing a few small mods to sort out my minor niggles. The tuning stability isn't great, but a Graph Tech nut and some good tuners should sort that out. Switch, pots and wiring will have to be upgraded to my standards too. I've got some Tonerider A4's waiting for me at at the post office, but that's just to experiment with - I'm still surprisingly happy with the stock pickups.

Norman86

selbydoodl wrote Biggest difference Alan is the Slash has GIBSON written on the headstock.

i must say, its a pity then that Slash didnt originally play a Gibson, but a Gibson copy! ?

Alex-B-Broadway

Norman86 wrote
selbydoodl wrote Biggest difference Alan is the Slash has GIBSON written on the headstock.
i must say, its a pity then that Slash didnt originally play a Gibson, but a Gibson copy! ?

I've had a lot of disagreements with people on this. How dare I suggest that slash didn't play a Gibson! :?

Tokai-SA

Alex B Broadway wrote
Norman86 wrote
selbydoodl wrote Biggest difference Alan is the Slash has GIBSON written on the headstock.
i must say, its a pity then that Slash didnt originally play a Gibson, but a Gibson copy! ?
I've had a lot of disagreements with people on this. How dare I suggest that slash didn't play a Gibson! :?

His guitars are built by Kris Derrig. ?

ezietsman

Norman86 wrote
selbydoodl wrote Biggest difference Alan is the Slash has GIBSON written on the headstock.
i must say, its a pity then that Slash didnt originally play a Gibson, but a Gibson copy! ?

Why is that a pity?

Norman86

ez wrote
Norman86 wrote
selbydoodl wrote Biggest difference Alan is the Slash has GIBSON written on the headstock.
i must say, its a pity then that Slash didnt originally play a Gibson, but a Gibson copy! ?
Why is that a pity?

pity for Gibson they werent good enough ? ?

shaunf

Wow....

You guys have got to be kidding, right?

singemonkey

shaunf wrote Wow....

You guys have got to be kidding, right?

'bout what?

Slash's AFD LP was made by Derrig. It's a fake. It's no secret.

But he didn't use them because Gibsons weren't good enough. Just that at the time they didn't have the whole historic line and the only way you could get an LP made like a '50s 'burst was to buy a '50s 'burst (which, while they were a lot cheaper than today were still insanely expensive), buy a Japanese clone (which was really hard to do in the USA), or have one made.

Clearly the dude did a really good job on that guitar.

shaunf

Here's a little history lesson for you, all of which can be corroborated by Reckless Road - Guns n' Roses and the Making of Appetite for Destruction by Marc Canter, Slash's Autobiography, as well as a number of interviews conducted by Slash and his guitar tech Adam Day, if you don't believe me and would like to check it out for yourselves:

Pre Sept 1985- Slash plays a variety of guitars, including BC Rich, Jackson and even a Super Strat of some kind.

28 Sept 1985 - First public appearance of Slash with a Les Paul. Guitar was a '59 Les Paul replica that was bought from Guitar's R Us. The guitar previously belonged to Steve Hunter of Alice Cooper. Slash couldn't afford the guitar which was fitted with genuine Gibson '59 parts and so the guitar was stripped of its vintage pickups and hardware by the guitar store, and fitted with new, aftermarket parts including Seymour Duncan JB pups, before Slash received it.

Sometime between 11 July 1986 and 23 August 23 1986- the "Hunter Burst" is pawned by Slash for drug money, and he returns to using his BC Rich and Jackson guitars live. In 2009 the Hunter Burst was confirmed as being a Derrig built replica. This guitar was not used by Slash for any recording, apart from some early demos.

Early 1987 - GnR begin recording Appetite for Destruction. During the recording of the first few tracks, Slash is dissappointed in the recorded tone of his BC Rich and Jackson guitars and wants another Les Paul. GnR Manager, Alan Niven visits a music store called Music Works, in Redondo Beach, where he finds a Les Paul copy made by luthier Kriss Derrig, who built replica guitars in the workshop in the back, for sale. Guitar is fitted with Seymour Duncan Alnico II's and Alan returns to the studio and presents the guitar to Slash, who proceeds to rerecord the his already recorded tracks, and the rest of the AFD album is recorded with this guitar.

The Derrig is used live for some time until it starts getting quite beat up. Slash decides to ask Gibson for some guitars, who then provide him with 3 1987 Les Paul Standards. These 3 guitars are then used live from this point on, with the Derrig being retired from live performance. Slash takes a particular affinity to one of these LP Standards, a 3 piece plain top, and this becomes his main guitar, both live and in studio in the studio, in conjunction with the Derrig.

The '87 Gibson LP Standard continues to be Slash's main guitar from the Use Your Illusions albums right up until the first Velvet Revolver album, where after having already being resurrected from several major breaks and repaired, Slash decides its too valuable to him to continue playing live with and retires it from live performance, and only use it only for recording.

During the VR era, Slash gets his second Signature model Les Paul, a tobacco burst with SD Pickups and Tonepro piezo-equipped bridge etc.

In 2010, Slash and Gibson decide to commemorate the AFD album by creating a new signature model, inspired by the Derrig guitar used to record the album. Slash receives a number of prototypes of the AFD guitar and uses them during the touring of his self titled solo album. Slash's latest album, Apocalyptic Love, is recorded exclusively with one of these prototypes.

So in summary, Slash didn't consciously choose to buy the Derrig guitar during the recording of AFD. His asked for a Les Paul guitar and his manager, Alan Niven bought the guitar for him. Subsequently, in 1996 Slash acquired another Derrig for his collection, since these replicas are rather valuable in their own right. He also owns another replica LP by Peter "Max" Baranet.

All other guitars, besides the original Derrig, have been a bonafide Gibson guitars, and apart from his AFD prototypes, which were made by the Gibson Custom Shop, all the other guitars that have featured in his career up till now have all been USA models.

Here endith today's lesson. Let the utter nonsense and half-truths continue... 8)

singemonkey

Half-truths?

singemonkey wrote
Slash's AFD LP was made by Derrig. It's a fake. It's no secret.

He started playing on replicas. AFD was recorded on a replica (the famous Slash-tone that the G 'n R fans are after)

Early 1987 - GnR begin recording Appetite for Destruction. During the recording of the first few tracks, Slash is dissappointed in the recorded tone of his BC Rich and Jackson guitars and wants another Les Paul. GnR Manager, Alan Niven visits a music store called Music Works, in Redondo Beach, where he finds a Les Paul copy made by luthier Kriss Derrig, who built replica guitars in the workshop in the back, for sale. Guitar is fitted with Seymour Duncan Alnico II's and Alan returns to the studio and presents the guitar to Slash, who proceeds to rerecord the his already recorded tracks, and the rest of the AFD album is recorded with this guitar.

Obviously he gave it up after taking an endorsement deal with Gibson. I'm sure he was more than happy with the guitars they gave him, but he would not have been allowed to play the replica in terms of that deal unless the people at Gibson were morons.

shaunf

singemonkey wrote Half-truths?

singemonkey wrote
Slash's AFD LP was made by Derrig. It's a fake. It's no secret.

He started playing on replicas. AFD was recorded on a replica (the famous Slash-tone that the G 'n R fans are after)

Early 1987 - GnR begin recording Appetite for Destruction. During the recording of the first few tracks, Slash is dissappointed in the recorded tone of his BC Rich and Jackson guitars and wants another Les Paul. GnR Manager, Alan Niven visits a music store called Music Works, in Redondo Beach, where he finds a Les Paul copy made by luthier Kriss Derrig, who built replica guitars in the workshop in the back, for sale. Guitar is fitted with Seymour Duncan Alnico II's and Alan returns to the studio and presents the guitar to Slash, who proceeds to rerecord the his already recorded tracks, and the rest of the AFD album is recorded with this guitar.
Obviously he gave it up after taking an endorsement deal with Gibson. I'm sure he was more than happy with the guitars they gave him, but he would not have been allowed to play the replica in terms of that deal unless the people at Gibson were morons.

Read some of the posts before yours. I never quoted you therefore I wasn't responding to you when I made reference to nonsense.

The point I was trying to make with the history lesson was that it was only AFD that was recorded exclusively with the Derrig. The Derrig has also been used on newer albums, but in conjunction with other Gibson Les Pauls. Can you or anyone else tell which songs on which albums were recorded with the Derrig and which with his '87 LP standard? No? Didn't think so.

As far as I am concerned, Slashs distinctive AFD tone on that album was far more as a result of the amp used on that album rather than a particular guitar.

Oh, and although not used live for quite some time (Slashs decision, it appears, rather than Gibsons), the Derrig has made many many public appearances with Slash, in photo shoots, videos etc. if Gibson had some embargo on this guitar, I highly doubt this would be the case.

aubs1

Congratulations Alan, you see, sooner or later everyone must have a Les Paul! ?

AlanRatcliffe

Aubs1 wrote Congratulations Alan, you see, sooner or later everyone must have a Les Paul! ?

Good heavens! An on-topic post! ? Ja, I had a good run though - 30 years of playing without one. Still getting used to it and using it more for rock-type stuff.

DonovanB

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Aubs1 wrote Congratulations Alan, you see, sooner or later everyone must have a Les Paul! ?
Good heavens! An on-topic post! ? Ja, I had a good run though - 30 years of playing without one. Still getting used to it and using it more for rock-type stuff.

I found that when I play the big, heavy single cut guitars i tend to have a heavier touch. They always feel so sturdy that I want to bliksem them.

Whereas a tele feels like a new born baby. Very soft and you need to be gentle with it..

AlanRatcliffe

Donovan Banks wrote I found that when I play the big, heavy single cut guitars i tend to have a heavier touch. They always feel so sturdy that I want to bliksem them.

Whereas a tele feels like a new born baby. Very soft and you need to be gentle with it..

On the contrary, Teles are ideal for home (or stage) defence (just ask Keef!), while Gibson headstocks fall off if you look at them too hard. ?

DonovanB

I guess life's like that. My baby fell off our bed and was fine. If I fall off I'd break something. ?

Norman86

Oh Lord, i created a war without realising it...

Also, Gibson created a signature model based on a fake.. Now thats classic!
Akin to Apple corp's blunders and lawsuits!

shaunf wrote The point I was trying to make with the history lesson was that it was only AFD that was recorded exclusively with the Derrig. The Derrig has also been used on newer albums, but in conjunction with other Gibson Les Pauls. Can you or anyone else tell which songs on which albums were recorded with the Derrig and which with his '87 LP standard? No? Didn't think so.

So, if i read this right, there is no good reason to buy a Gibson Les Paul, other than to buy the name Gibson, as you cannot hear a difference between a Gibson or a "copy", and if you can its snake oil?!

PS, Congrats on the Vintage, Alan! ?

shaunf

Norman86 wrote Oh Lord, i created a war without realising it...

What war? Did I miss something? Thought we were just chatting and sharing information? Silly me obviously mistakenly thought that's what forums are for...

shaunf wrote The point I was trying to make with the history lesson was that it was only AFD that was recorded exclusively with the Derrig. The Derrig has also been used on newer albums, but in conjunction with other Gibson Les Pauls. Can you or anyone else tell which songs on which albums were recorded with the Derrig and which with his '87 LP standard? No? Didn't think so.

Norman86 wrote So, if i read this right, there is no good reason to buy a Gibson Les Paul, other than to buy the name Gibson, as you cannot hear a difference between a Gibson or a "copy", and if you can its snake oil?!

I don't think you understand the difference between a cheap knockoff and a master luthier-built replica. We're not comparing a Gibson made Les Paul to some cheap knockoff in this case. The Derrigs, Max's as well as other "replica" Les Pauls built by some well known replica builders today, like Gil Yaron, Tom Bartlett and others, are extremely fine instuments, and probably cost more than 3 times the price of most of the Les Pauls rolling out of the Gibson Custom Shop, let alone the Gibson USA models.

Why would one of these extremely well crafted replica guitars, equipped with the same pickups as Slash's '87 Gibson LP Standard, which he has regularly referred to as a really good sounding example, sound that much different, especially when recorded through a high gain amp?

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