6L6 Tube Choices

Warren

Any suggestions for which tubes to get for my Deluxe, and where to buy them?

Should I also get a few pre-amp tube spares (12AX7s)?

AlanRatcliffe

SED "Winged C" are the best new production 6L6s available. KCA NOS had them on a really good special last time I looked. If you are willing to pay for NOS, the RCA blackplates or Philips 7581s are hard to beat.

Warren

Thanks! I see they are still on special ($80 for a pair), so I'll start with those. Is there value in going NOS for power amp tubes? I believe that for pre-amp tubes it makes sense since they last a lot longer?

AlanRatcliffe

ShreddySmurf wrote: Is there value in going NOS for power amp tubes? I believe that for pre-amp tubes it makes sense since they last a lot longer?

That's it in a nutshell. NOS power valves are too rare and too expensive to play with regularly IMO. Nice to have a set to use in the studio, but with only a couple of year's life from a set, it's not practical for the gigging guitarist to feed their amp thousands in NOS valves every year or two (going rate on a single NOS RCA black plate is about $180 ATM - heaven help you if you need a matched quad). The new stock valves are not bad these days and getting better all the time.

Warren

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
ShreddySmurf wrote: Is there value in going NOS for power amp tubes? I believe that for pre-amp tubes it makes sense since they last a lot longer?
That's it in a nutshell. NOS power valves are too rare and too expensive to play with regularly IMO. Nice to have a set to use in the studio, but with only a couple of year's life from a set, it's not practical for the gigging guitarist to feed their amp thousands in NOS valves every year or two (going rate on a single NOS RCA black plate is about $180 ATM - heaven help you if you need a matched quad). The new stock valves are not bad these days and getting better all the time.

Great, thanks. ?

psyx

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
ShreddySmurf wrote: Is there value in going NOS for power amp tubes? I believe that for pre-amp tubes it makes sense since they last a lot longer?
That's it in a nutshell. NOS power valves are too rare and too expensive to play with regularly IMO. Nice to have a set to use in the studio, but with only a couple of year's life from a set, it's not practical for the gigging guitarist to feed their amp thousands in NOS valves every year or two (going rate on a single NOS RCA black plate is about $180 ATM - heaven help you if you need a matched quad). The new stock valves are not bad these days and getting better all the time.

A bit off topic , but its funny that they used to make tubes so well and then when ss came , so few producers still went on producing them and the quality dipped leaving us 40 years later and were still not quite where we were. Yeah, some of the expensive new stock tubes are excellent , but the ones that are readily available are still not quite the quality of the old stock ones

makepeace

The Tung-sol 5881's are also great if you're looking for a slightly cheaper alternative, have a set in my 5E3, sound great. Also, tubestore has the SED's at 69.95 a pair.

Warren

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I have another question: I've read that I can possibly replace some of the pre-amp valves with some alternatives. The pre-amp positions are labelled V1, V2 and V3. The standard valves are meant to be 12AX7, but I've read that a 12DW7 tube in V2 can warm/smooth up the drive quite significantly.

I'm going to order some spare 12AX7s, but what about that 12DW7, or alternatives for the pre-amp? This is interesting to me since I use the pre-amp distortion quite a lot, and it would be cool to experiment. Anything I should watch out for?

makepeace

The 12DW7 is a hybrid dual triode, it is essentially half 12AX7 - half 12AU7 (the 12AX7's lower gain cousin). It depends on your configuration, but essentially you'll be lowering the gain of one of your preamp stages (which Deluxe do you have? do you know the year, model etc?).

Its quite a commonly done thing to swap lower/higher gain tubes in preamp slots, esp with the 12AU through AX7 family, but unless you know enough about the subject, its better to listen to what those who do have to say. Its normally fine, but you do get pre tubes that have different pinouts and this could cause problems if you aren't circumspect.

You will have a slightly decreased output with the 12DW7, and the tonal palette will most likely be somewhat changed. Its all up to your ears to decide which is best for you. You'd might even like to try the 12AY7. This tube has gain in between that of the 12AU7 and 12AX7 and is the staple 5E3 V1. I wouldn't suggest going for a 12AU7 though, people don't seem to like them in amps of this topology.

Good luck and have fun.

Warren

makepeace wrote: The 12DW7 is a hybrid dual triode, it is essentially half 12AX7 - half 12AU7 (the 12AX7's lower gain cousin). It depends on your configuration, but essentially you'll be lowering the gain of one of your preamp stages (which Deluxe do you have? do you know the year, model etc?).

Its quite a commonly done thing to swap lower/higher gain tubes in preamp slots, esp with the 12AU through AX7 family, but unless you know enough about the subject, its better to listen to what those who do have to say. Its normally fine, but you do get pre tubes that have different pinouts and this could cause problems if you aren't circumspect.

You will have a slightly decreased output with the 12DW7, and the tonal palette will most likely be somewhat changed. Its all up to your ears to decide which is best for you. You'd might even like to try the 12AY7. This tube has gain in between that of the 12AU7 and 12AX7 and is the staple 5E3 V1. I wouldn't suggest going for a 12AU7 though, people don't seem to like them in amps of this topology.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks very much for this.

Yes, the idea with the hybrid 12DW7 would be to lower the pre-amp gain somewhat, with a view to trying to get it a little smoother and seeing what sort of sound comes out. If I don't like it I can always change back. I'm just quite new to playing around with tubes, and in my situation it's actually the pre-amp tubes that will have the biggest impact. Power tube-wise, I will order myself a pair of the Winged C SED tubes next month, but for now I just need some spares, so I've ordered some Tung Sols from Mr Valve.

AlanRatcliffe

I don't know the 6DW7, but I often use a 5751 in place of a 12AX7 - brings the gain down from 100 to 60, but responds in the circuit exactly like a 12AX7 does. Good NOS versions are also available at decent prices.

Norman86

on a similar note, what are the differences between 6L6 tubes?
i know of 6L6 and 6L6GC, but they arent interchangable!?

AlanRatcliffe

The GC varient is mostly what the modern 6L6s are all designed around and is basically the latest design. The first 6L6s were rated at 19W, but became more and more efficient, reaching 30W with the GC. KT66s are another popular version, rated at 25W but more rugged than the GC.

The "W" in the suffix of any valve just means it was designed as a more mechanically rugged valve for military applications.

Warren

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The GC varient is mostly what the modern 6L6s are all designed around and is basically the latest design. The first 6L6s were rated at 19W, but became more and more efficient, reaching 30W with the GC. KT66s are another popular version, rated at 25W but more rugged than the GC.

The "W" in the suffix of any valve just means it was designed as a more mechanically rugged valve for military applications.

And, as I understand it, with the Hot Rod Deluxe amp having a plate voltage of 430 volts, the GC varients are fine because they're rated at 500 volts on the plates, whereas the original 6L6 is rated at 360 volts. Which in my tiny "electrical mind" means my amp will burn them to a crisp?

AlanRatcliffe

ShreddySmurf wrote: And, as I understand it, with the Hot Rod Deluxe amp having a plate voltage of 430 volts, the GC varients are fine because they're rated at 500 volts on the plates, whereas the original 6L6 is rated at 360 volts. Which in my tiny "electrical mind" means my amp will burn them to a crisp?

Yup. Many of the modern 6L6s are variants on the GC when you look at the specs. Case in point - Electro-Harmonix 6L6 EH is a minor variation on the Sovtek WXT+ which is another version of a GC.

But, from the Tubestore's 6L6 page:

Facts you should know before purchasing:
25 Watt tubes such as 6L6, 6L6GB, and 5881 are rated for plate voltage up to 400 volts.
30 Watt tubes such as 6L6GC, 6L6WXT+, and 6L6WGC are rated for plate voltage up to 500 volts.
The KT66 tube type is a 25 Watt tube rated for plate voltage up to 500 volts.

Ha! I learned something new today... ?

Norman86

so if i read that right, i could swop my 6L6GC for a KT66, but not for a vanilla 6L6?!