ruvann
Hopefully any info here can also help others.
So... We started a casual project about a year ago, two guitarists just writing some songs while we search for members.
So it's a year later, we got our material, but we've been dropped by so many other musos. No drummer... No bassist... No vox... So far... ☹
I've been playing for about 10 years, the other axe man for about 7-8 years I think. We've had our share of stage performance.
We're a metal outfit. Not like brutal-blast-beats-&-impossible-to-understand-metal but rather grooving and melodic with some parts even leaning over to a "rock-ish" style and there are some melody lines on the guitar that you can even whistle. So there are some elements to relate to instead of just a bunch of riffing. Even my mom finds it easy enough to listen to, understand and even remember some melody lines ? hehe and we've been itching to jam our stuff live! We wanna have fun performing our creations and we just want people to hear it!
SO
We're prepared to take our drums and bass backing tracks, and just jam our tunes for some people and have a good time doing it.
BTW the drums and bass doesn't sound cheap. It sounds decent, polished and fit for duty ?
I KNOW there are some downs and it's not IDEAL, like you won't have the same "vibe" for the performance, etc., etc. BUT I would like to ask everyone for some tips, opinions, etc., how to minimise the cons and exploit the pros to put up the best performance we possibly can.
We can't simply "perform", we're gonna have to "entertain".
We still want to make it fun and enjoyable for anyone watching, make them have a good time and not wanna slit their own throats just to not have to listen to us ? haha
We don't care what people think. We're just not accepting defeat and walking away from what we want to do.
I'll be getting myself a Macbook Air soon (just waiting for the new Ivy bridge updates 8)), and I'll be playing the backing tracks from it, as well as using it to change the patches on my Axe-FX like we're doing at practice ATM (Our very own guitar tech ? hehe)
For example, maybe I can get my hands on some lighting at some stage and we can sync that into our show, etc.
I don't mind spending a bit of money to add some "effects" and stuff.
I can't do backflips and I'm not a pyrotechnic ??? so any other advice, tips or suggestions how we can make it every inch more fun for the audience and still put up an entertaining show?
AlanRatcliffe
Hmmm... Difficult one. I think the big problem is that backtracks (or sequences) are anathema to your average hard rock or metal audience. There's also no way you are going to have the stage presence of a full band. Double whammy.
If you are going to try it, you'd have to go all-out on the lighting and other effects to even have a hope of pulling it off. Or somehow make the lack of other musicians a feature (looping metal anyone?).
ruvann
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Hmmm... Difficult one. I think the big problem is that backtracks (or sequences) are anathema to your average hard rock or metal audience. There's also no way you are going to have the stage presence of a full band. Double whammy.
If you are going to try it, you'd have to go all-out on the lighting and other effects to even have a hope of pulling it off. Or somehow make the lack of other musicians a feature (looping metal anyone?).
Indeed very true ☹
At least this isn't something we're planning to do next friday haha
Like you said, we'll definitely have to make the lack of other members look deliberate and planned.
what exactly do you mean with the looping metal ?
We'll give it some time, brainstorm ideas, ask opinions, etc.
We still continue our search but so far we only have empty promises. People and even friends make plans with us for a jam day and they just don't pitch. Not cool.
AlanRatcliffe
b1scu1t wrote:
what exactly do you mean with the looping metal ?
Do what the solo acoustic players are doing and build up entire compositions with loops live. Start with bass and drums and record them live, swap instruments and start shredding and singing with the loop.
Riaan-Combrink
I must agree with Allan that this particular project may be up against it irrespective of how well you guys are able to perform the material.
What you describe will certainly work very well in a covers-type environment. But the people who generally would come to see a 'sequenced' band would generally not appreciate heavier music (let alone original hard rock). And people who would want to see original hard rock would generally frown upon the absence of drums and bass. So a serious Catch 22 in my opinion (said as someone who has fair experience playing live in a sequenced duo).
The looping is a great idea, but of course that would require either of you to be able to play drums or bass to lay the foundation for the loops. If you can't, it could still work well if you lay down a bass-type pattern on the lower strings and do other percussive type stuff on guitar, before bringing in the melody line.
But - despite your request to focus on the positives - I'm not sure that a metal duo with backtracks will really be able to find a niche market large enough to sustain itself in a commercial setting. I'm going to give it some serious thought over the weekend, and will post again if anything else comes to mind.
Keira-WitherKay
Yes think it's been said but if you want to be taken seriously , dump the backing tracks and form a band , backing track bands are seen as commercial pop bands used in venues who don't wanna pay a full band . And it sounds like you wanna take it seriously so form at least a power trio bass - guitar and drums and if you wanna cut down on band members and you have 2 guitars , then one of you switch to bass and just get a drummer who can sing or harmonize . Or else become a 4 piece . But really backing tracks however good will never get you anywhere other than that bar market but as riaan mentioned if you wanna do that bar market forget being a metal band and switch to evergreen classic rock . Also metal audiences seem to appreciate a full band . And will never take you seriously . So some hard choices to make . Good luck with em
costafonix
here's my 5 cents worth,
obviously a full band is 1st prize, BUT there are so many dynamics that prevent a lot of muso's from playing in a full band.
I originally played in a 5 piece band for many years and it was great, but there were always issues in the band with ....
i) the choice of music
ii) people being dedicated enough (some muso's feel that simply 'arriving' at the gig is good enough)
iii) people learning their part
iv) people making the time to get to band practice
v) the bass player/drummer/guitarist/etc.etc. is too loud or not loud enough,,,
vi) the neighbour keeps calling the cops because you're disturbing the peace
vii) you cannot find a venue big enough to practice in
viii) if you don't have a permanent practice venue you need to carry all the stuff, set up, etc.etc.
the list goes on and on.
Had it not been for backing tracks, I would have hung up my guitar many years ago, so in fact backing tracks have kept me (and what's left of my 5 piece band) going, and yes, there is a fine line between using backing tracks and karaoke.
so getting back to b1scu1ts comments, I would say you have to pay extra attention to what you're doing on stage, because there are fewer of you under the spotlight,
don't underestimate the value of good lighting,
focus on vocal harmonies,
remove all guitar backing off your backing tracks so that you are indeed playing guitar and not miming,
learn your stuff well enough so that you're not staring at any chords or lyrics in a book,
connect with your audience
and most important of all, show that you're having fun while you're doing it and don't let the absence of other 'human' musicians prevent you from doing what you want to do :yup:
ruvann
Thanks for all the comments so far everyone!! ? great points everyone's making
I think we're at least gonna try to get a vocalist. Have some front man presence since he's the one the crowd spends most time looking and interacting with.
Unfortunately I can't sing and I can SERIOUSLY just kick myself for not practicing my vocals earlier but I'm most definitely gonna start and try to make up lost time.
Our instrumentation is a bit heavier than a typical "rock" band, but we're trying to keep it melodic, enjoyable and then combine it with some rock vocals and make it easier on the ears of the average person.
Something like say a Breaking Benjamin vibe on the vocals. Our instrumentation with vocals that are easy to sing along with ?
I know so many people that LOVE the parts in like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage's parts with the clean vocals. They enjoy they heavy instruments and the vocals doesn't chase them away.
We found one guy with a Nirvana/Seether voice! Great vocalist! But we can't manage to get hold of him ☹
If I was able to afford it, I would've paid someone hehe
Nitebob
B1sku1t, if your keen, I'm a vocalist, and am in te pretoria area...if you want me to come for an audition, please pm me.
Nitebob
CostaFonix wrote:
here's my 5 cents worth,
obviously a full band is 1st prize, BUT there are so many dynamics that prevent a lot of muso's from playing in a full band.
I originally played in a 5 piece band for many years and it was great, but there were always issues in the band with ....
i) the choice of music
ii) people being dedicated enough (some muso's feel that simply 'arriving' at the gig is good enough)
iii) people learning their part
iv) people making the time to get to band practice
v) the bass player/drummer/guitarist/etc.etc. is too loud or not loud enough,,,
vi) the neighbour keeps calling the cops because you're disturbing the peace
vii) you cannot find a venue big enough to practice in
viii) if you don't have a permanent practice venue you need to carry all the stuff, set up, etc.etc.
the list goes on and on.
Had it not been for backing tracks, I would have hung up my guitar many years ago, so in fact backing tracks have kept me (and what's left of my 5 piece band) going, and yes, there is a fine line between using backing tracks and karaoke.
so getting back to b1scu1ts comments, I would say you have to pay extra attention to what you're doing on stage, because there are fewer of you under the spotlight,
don't underestimate the value of good lighting,
focus on vocal harmonies,
remove all guitar backing off your backing tracks so that you are indeed playing guitar and not miming,
learn your stuff well enough so that you're not staring at any chords or lyrics in a book,
connect with your audience
and most important of all, show that you're having fun while you're doing it and don't let the absence of other 'human' musicians prevent you from doing what you want to do :yup:
Question: How do you remove all guitar from tha backing tracks? I know how to do it on my own compositions, but off bought backing tracks. Some web's give you the option but then remove all guitars, electric and acoustic, I can't play both.
Nitebob
@Joe, I also use karaoke-version.com. But I've noticed it gives you the option to exclude guitars, but I only play acoustic and would like to include electrics...back to the drawing board for me I suppose...sorry B1sku1t...
Ray
There's a baunch called Russian Circles who are pretty hot and metally and the guitarist makes big use of loops. I cant remember where but I read an interview with the guy quite a while ago. Anyway, there is a bass and drums in the band though. But listen, I've got a RC-30 and I understand it's got some sort of drum machine function on it. Maybe scout around for a demo on the thing. Also you can store a whole bunch of tracks on the thing.
Nitebob
Thanx Joe...now I get it
Mannoroth
I'm sure they would go for a full band if they could actually find some members - Good metal drummers at least are extremely hard to come by in Pta / Jozi area..
ruvann
Small update.
ALMOST had a drummer and bassist ☹
Both are friends that I asked. The bassist guy is actually a guitarist but he hasn't been active for a while now so I thought I'd at least make the offer so he has a chance to be active with something musical if he wants to be.
Gave the drummer the notation to one song and the bassist tabs for 3 songs.
One week later (this passing Wednesday) the drummer contacts me and says he doesn't want to take on a metal project again now, wants to do a completely different genre, and the bassist who is actually a guitarist says he doesn't want to play bass.
How do you turn around the stick cause we seem to keep catching onto the wrong end! WTF haha
2 weeks ago I came across another drummer, contacted him and asked him if he would like to audition.
He liked the music and said yes.
Yesterday I asked him again, thinking we can arrange something for this saturday and he says that he's jamming for another band now.
My head hurts from all the facepalming hahaha
Told him that there's one thing better than jamming for a band, and that's jamming for two bands!
So he said we'll arrange for a jam session.
If I wasn't so attached and dedicated to guitar I would've played drums but how can I just waste 10 years of playing?
And finding a replacement guitarist will be just as difficult.
QUESTION:
What places do you know of where musos advertise themselves?
I know there's a classifieds section here but I don't really see too many drummers, vocalists and bassist advertising so I thought maybe there are some other places also worth checking out.
Norman86
B1scu1t...
where in PTA are you based?
I have a friend who is a keen drummer, she might be interested! i'll send her a link to this thread!
ruvann
Norman86 wrote:
B1scu1t...
where in PTA are you based?
I have a friend who is a keen drummer, she might be interested! i'll send her a link to this thread!
Hey
I'm PTA North.
I'll PM you my details.
Thx!!!
ruvann
Joe Moore wrote:
/.......snip
Dude , imo , thats muso lingo for "I didn't practice / learn your stuff because I was lazy / otherwise occupied " :-\ .
I've found that the good musos are already in bands (usually in 2 or 3 ) .
Have you considered people with lesser skills than yours , ....but with huge enthusiasm and committment and the willingness to learn ? This may take a bit longer for you to reach your goals , but at least the band will make solid , steady progress ....imo 8)
Yeah true. The way I see it is that the good drummers keep themselves so very busy with 2+ bands. I think of it as kind of having multiple bets in the same gambling game. If one band gets it's big break you can go along for the ride, if another slips up you don't sit with your thumb.. ... .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Haha
but we really seem to even struggle finding the average dudes haha WTF ?
The guitarist I'm jamming with says he knows this guy I asked about 2 weeks ago and he says the last time he saw him he wasn't the best the drummer but if I have to I'm willing to make the drum parts simpler.
The needed dedication, commitment to progress, and right attitude will definitely push him to become better at his instrument, and that certainly counts for more than a great technically skilled drummer with a attitude that sucks.
Thx for bringing it up though ? yes I'll admit it, I can't help being somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to music and it certainly helps when someone helps get the mindset in order again ? hahaha
stu
Ever heard of We Butter The Bread With Butter?
You should check out those two during their early years before the full band. Get some inspiration there ?
Norman86
Hey dude, i have emailed her your details!!
She does stay near to me in Kempton though, but she said she's willing to give it a shot!
So im sure you'll hear from her soon!
