Gauteng Toll roads

IceCreamMan · 2012-01-05T14:24:16+00:00

Without this denigrating into a snarling policial mess which is not the intention of the post, has anyone registered thus far and what if one never registers. What are you ppl doing about this. Me, i aint registered , i have no intention of registering as i do not use the highways much and happy to pay my account that then send me on a monthly basis should i use the highways. (can i do this?)

Zulublues

Hey Costa I'm with you. The way I see it is that Public Transport is municipally run bus etc. that is partially funded by our taxes. Minibus taxis are a private enterprise much as a transport company. They should pay the toll fees as part of their operating costs. Will the transport companies, metered taxis, limo services recieve exemption?? Hell no !

If the private sector has to pay then it must be the entire private sector. One wonders who has a "dog in the fight" with this one, or do I really need to ask?

flatfourfan

and yeah..............I feel sorry for the Government employees who've had their pension *invested* in SANRAL. Government is going to push this crap through no matter what......mark my words.

IceCreamMan

i just spent a couple of hours on the Sanral website investigating all of this stuff and i gotta say that i think that i will be registering like a good sheeple.... i think its going to be railroaded no matter what so at the end of the day i gotta cover my ass ?

i am a very infrequent user of highways and anticipate spedning less than 50 rand a month on tolls so it does not really affect me much ..... but there ppl in my team that are going to spend the cap each and every month adn that is a lot of money to them..... also i guess food prices going to respond to this and other costs as well

deefstes

IceCreamMan wrote i just spent a couple of hours on the Sanral website investigating all of this stuff and i gotta say that i think that i will be registering like a good sheeple.... i think its going to be railroaded no matter what so at the end of the day i gotta cover my ass ?

i am a very infrequent user of highways and anticipate spedning less than 50 rand a month on tolls so it does not really affect me much ..... but there ppl in my team that are going to spend the cap each and every month adn that is a lot of money to them..... also i guess food prices going to respond to this and other costs as well

Do you have clarity on the matter of SANRAL having direct access to your bank account? Is that still part of the T's & C's?

IceCreamMan

deefstes wrote
IceCreamMan wrote i just spent a couple of hours on the Sanral website investigating all of this stuff and i gotta say that i think that i will be registering like a good sheeple.... i think its going to be railroaded no matter what so at the end of the day i gotta cover my ass ?

i am a very infrequent user of highways and anticipate spedning less than 50 rand a month on tolls so it does not really affect me much ..... but there ppl in my team that are going to spend the cap each and every month adn that is a lot of money to them..... also i guess food prices going to respond to this and other costs as well
Do you have clarity on the matter of SANRAL having direct access to your bank account? Is that still part of the T's & C's?

aha , yes i should of mentioned that that option is one i do not recommend. i will be going the prepaid route, in no way should SANRAL have access to yr funds which is one of the options they ...do not take this option ....you will cry when they make an error >☹

flatfourfan

There is no doubt that they will steamroll it through regardless of what people do/ say.

Worst case scenario, I'll go prepaid. Load R50 and that should last me a year unless they have a tariff increase.

majestikc

Such a "democratic" country we live in.

As soon as they "steamroll" this and everyone just bows down and takes it up the ass, it's all downhill from there, they'll know they can then just push whatever they want and we'll accept it. Whether we like it or not.

Ray

You elect a government and that is democracy. By doing so you give that government a mandate to pass laws with the provided structures that dictate how you exist. That is what is going on now so yes it is democracy and that is why democracy is such a kak idea.

deefstes

majestikc wrote Such a "democratic" country we live in.

As soon as they "steamroll" this and everyone just bows down and takes it up the ass, it's all downhill from there, they'll know they can then just push whatever they want and we'll accept it. Whether we like it or not.

I'm sorry majestikc but it appears that you and flatfourfan have already "bowed down and taken it up the ass". You seem to have already decided that it is a fait accompli. Now it may or may not be a done deal but it's exactly these capitulating mindsets you're showing which you seem to accuse "everyone" of. If everyone did have that roll-over-and-die attitude, this e-tolling would have been effective already.

The truth of the matter is that there are still 3 pending court challenges to the e-tolling and as untouchable as SANRAL, the provincial government or, indeed, the national government may consider themselves, they are still not above the courts. A lot may still happen. AfriForum have been very successful in their court cases and I have good reason to believe that this one is far from over.

I'm not making any predictions as to how this will pan out but I'm just saying that I don't hold that nihilistic philosophy that you guys do and I wish more people would show the "can do" attitude that AfriForum and the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance shows.

majestikc

"Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion. In practise"

flatfourfan

Well at this stage I have no intention of buying an E-tag and won't do anything about it until my car needs to be mapped and dyno'd in jhb and that'll be another 2 months at least......screw them.

costafonix

flatfourfan wrote Well at this stage I have no intention of buying an E-tag and won't do anything about it until my car needs to be mapped and dyno'd in jhb and that'll be another 2 months at least......screw them.

majestikc

deefstes wrote
majestikc wrote Such a "democratic" country we live in.

As soon as they "steamroll" this and everyone just bows down and takes it up the ass, it's all downhill from there, they'll know they can then just push whatever they want and we'll accept it. Whether we like it or not.
I'm sorry majestikc but it appears that you and flatfourfan have already "bowed down and taken it up the ass". You seem to have already decided that it is a fait accompli. Now it may or may not be a done deal but it's exactly these capitulating mindsets you're showing which you seem to accuse "everyone" of. If everyone did have that roll-over-and-die attitude, this e-tolling would have been effective already.

The truth of the matter is that there are still 3 pending court challenges to the e-tolling and as untouchable as SANRAL, the provincial government or, indeed, the national government may consider themselves, they are still not above the courts. A lot may still happen. AfriForum have been very successful in their court cases and I have good reason to believe that this one is far from over.

I'm not making any predictions as to how this will pan out but I'm just saying that I don't hold that nihilistic philosophy that you guys do and I wish more people would show the "can do" attitude that AfriForum and the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance shows.

That's fair enough, I'll have to check out those sites, I'm by no means surrendering, but unless I'm mistaken this thing is going ahead pretty soon, as in the next couple months they said. It's pretty much a go ahead from what I understand, pending court cases and forums don't really mean much now that it's actually happening, now it's up to "the people" to see if they take it or not (up the ass). I'll be a happy nihilistic-optimist for now, aka: a realist, IF it works out then that would be great, but somehow I doubt it.....................I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see

Bob-Dubery

It's been a nice, quiet day as far as moderatorial affairs go. This thread is starting to get close to the edge of forum policy, so let's all step back a little please (looking over the precipice first is optional).

IceCreamMan

well i went an bought a e tag for my car , my bike will fly under the radar ...and then registered it ..painless process really

deefstes

IceCreamMan wrote well i went an bought a e tag for my car , my bike will fly under the radar ...and then registered it ..painless process really

I'm sure the process of buying an e-tag and even registering it is painless. The painful part is yet to come. By registering an e-toll account, it means you must have agreed to all of the terms and conditions. Even if you register a prepaid account, you will have agreed to the following two terms and conditions (amongst many others):

- The motorist irrevocably authorizes Sanral or its duly authorized agents to obtain from any institutions where they may have an account or any credit bureau any information concerning themselves.

- The motorist acknowledge and accepts that Sanral may unilaterally update and amend their terms & conditions and that the motorist has consented to such amendments and has agreed to abide by such amended terms & conditions.

Excuse me! I am not giving SANRAL permission to obtain any information that they consider appropriate from my bank. SANRAL has already proven that they have no sense of what is appropriate and what not.

And there is absolutely no way I'm agreeing to any possible future terms and conditions, especially not with an organisation who has proved that they will sneak surprises on the public and then be unavailable for comment for weeks. I don't know which way this is going and I'm desperately hoping that the courts will intervene but I am not entering into any agreement with this draconian organisation.

majestikc wroteunless I'm mistaken this thing is going ahead pretty soon, as in the next couple months they said. It's pretty much a go ahead from what I understand

Not next couple of months, end of this month. At least, that's the current status. I suspect we will see an urgent court interdict in the next couple of weeks that will force SANRAL to postpone the implementation by some months until the court challenges have been dealt with. If the legal challenges aren't successful, I hope that at least it postpones this thing for many more months.

majestikc

End of this month is a week away almost. not too long to wait to see if it's postponed, if it is it will be a promising sign at least.

IceCreamMan

deefstes wrote
IceCreamMan wrote well i went an bought a e tag for my car , my bike will fly under the radar ...and then registered it ..painless process really
I'm sure the process of buying an e-tag and even registering it is painless. The painful part is yet to come. By registering an e-toll account, it means you must have agreed to all of the terms and conditions. Even if you register a prepaid account, you will have agreed to the following two terms and conditions (amongst many others):

- The motorist irrevocably authorizes Sanral or its duly authorized agents to obtain from any institutions where they may have an account or any credit bureau any information concerning themselves.

- The motorist acknowledge and accepts that Sanral may unilaterally update and amend their terms & conditions and that the motorist has consented to such amendments and has agreed to abide by such amended terms & conditions.

Excuse me! I am not giving SANRAL permission to obtain any information that they consider appropriate from my bank. SANRAL has already proven that they have no sense of what is appropriate and what not.

And there is absolutely no way I'm agreeing to any possible future terms and conditions, especially not with an organisation who has proved that they will sneak surprises on the public and then be unavailable for comment for weeks. I don't know which way this is going and I'm desperately hoping that the courts will intervene but I am not entering into any agreement with this draconian organisation.

majestikc wroteunless I'm mistaken this thing is going ahead pretty soon, as in the next couple months they said. It's pretty much a go ahead from what I understand
Not next couple of months, end of this month. At least, that's the current status. I suspect we will see an urgent court interdict in the next couple of weeks that will force SANRAL to postpone the implementation by some months until the court challenges have been dealt with. If the legal challenges aren't successful, I hope that at least it postpones this thing for many more months.

the information SAnral have is no dofferent to the information SARS have or WEsbank or DSTV or my credit card company or or or or

but i have to say that i am not going to be using the highways much so its not really a problem for me

deefstes

IceCreamMan wrote the information SAnral have is no dofferent to the information SARS have or WEsbank or DSTV or my credit card company or or or or

but i have to say that i am not going to be using the highways much so its not really a problem for me

Your bank has intimate knowledge of your financial affairs which SANRAL doesn't have and doesn't need. The bank for instance knows how much your monthly income is. That is information you did not disclose to SANRAL but you have agreed to them obtaining that information from your bank.

I know it will probably not happen but, for the sake of illustration, the terms and conditions you have signed makes the following scenario possible:

A year from now, SANRAL decides that, over and above the toll fee incurred by driving on the roads, all account holders will also pay a monthly maintenance fee which is proportionate to your income. You've agreed that they may obtain your monthly income from your bank and you have agreed that you will abide by any such future changes to the terms and conditions.

But surely that's ridiculous and makes no sense, right? Well, this whole thing is ridiculous and makes no sense. The terms and conditions as they currently stand are farcical to say the least. It violates almost everything that the Consumer Protection Act was designed to protect.

But look, my stressing the point might appear as if I'm trying to convince you of what you should and should not do. I'm not. I'm merely pointing out why I will not register for e-tolling and why I consider it dangerous.

IceCreamMan

deefstes wrote
IceCreamMan wrote the information SAnral have is no dofferent to the information SARS have or WEsbank or DSTV or my credit card company or or or or

but i have to say that i am not going to be using the highways much so its not really a problem for me
Your bank has intimate knowledge of your financial affairs which SANRAL doesn't have and doesn't need. The bank for instance knows how much your monthly income is. That is information you did not disclose to SANRAL but you have agreed to them obtaining that information from your bank.

I know it will probably not happen but, for the sake of illustration, the terms and conditions you have signed makes the following scenario possible:

A year from now, SANRAL decides that, over and above the toll fee incurred by driving on the roads, all account holders will also pay a monthly maintenance fee which is proportionate to your income. You've agreed that they may obtain your monthly income from your bank and you have agreed that you will abide by any such future changes to the terms and conditions.

But surely that's ridiculous and makes no sense, right? Well, this whole thing is ridiculous and makes no sense. The terms and conditions as they currently stand are farcical to say the least. It violates almost everything that the Consumer Protection Act was designed to protect.

But look, my stressing the point might appear as if I'm trying to convince you of what you should and should not do. I'm not. I'm merely pointing out why I will not register for e-tolling and why I consider it dangerous.

SANRAL do not have my bank account details .... this is not a requirement for pay as you go

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