Premier League

giggsy · 2011-09-12T08:20:46+00:00

How good are the two Manchester teams looking? I know its early days, but I reckon the only team to challenge them for the title will be Chelsea. Being a United fan I am really enjoying the start to the season - four games, none of which were the easiest on paper and we have scored 18 goals already (Rooney has scored more than every other Premiership team apart from City so far ?). Its a pity that both Welbeck and Cleverley, products of the youth system have sustained injuries just when they're getting a run in the team, but Smalling has been a revlation at right back and Jones is the future captain of the club, possibly also England. Benfica midweek and Chelsea on Sunday... the big games just keep on coming!

Tokai-SA

Messi is the best player I've ever seen, and that includes Maradona who was the best player I'd ever seen up until Messi and Ronaldo arrived on the scene.
Ronaldo runs a close second to Messi, on his day Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

I don't believe Ronaldo or Messi "dive".
When Ronaldo played for United he was accused of diving in every game, until you watched the slow mo and you could see that 'contact' was being made every time he "dived".
When you run at the speed that Ronaldo and Messi run, it doesn't take much contact to put you down...just a tip on the ankle and at that speed you must go down.

Having said that, Ronaldo was full of shite against Barcelona, ?, rolling around squirming all the time, I think the Spanish have influenced him, I guess it was part of the occasion, some 'acting' required.
But how about his goal, genius!
Hey!, he's Christiano Ronaldo, he can do whatever the F he likes, he's earned the right...he's like the Muhammad Ali of soccer. ?

As for Messi, for such a short guy he's amazingly strong, his balance when he moves is incredible, if he goes down, then he's been put down, he doesn't dive...IMO

Regarding Man United.
Time for Rio Ferdinand to RETIRE!
If Man City beat United I'm betting it's because of a Ferdinand mistake. ?

Squonk

Tokai SA wrote Messi is the best player I've ever seen, and that includes Maradona who was the best player I'd ever seen up until Messi and Ronaldo arrived on the scene

Still far too early to make these kind of statements.

Messi and Ronaldo are good, skilled etc, but IMHO do not have the Game changing Skills of Maradona, Cruyff, Platini and more recently Zidane.

On the international front their strike rate is just average and in Messi's case way below average (22 Goals in 68 games), they both looked poor at the last World Cup and they were in good teams.

Ronaldinho also had huge skills but lacked magic of Zidane, and everyone's forgotten about Ronaldinho already!

When their careers are over, then make the comparison.

MikeM

Squonk wroteMessi and Ronaldo are good, skilled etc, but IMHO do not have the Game changing Skills of Maradona, Cruyff, Platini and more recently Zidane.

Ronaldinho also had huge skills but lacked magic of Zidane, and everyone's forgotten about Ronaldinho already!

I've only started watching recently, but youtubed some clips of Zidane. What a man!!! A genius of volleys, freaking incredible to see.

Also my brother was a huge Ronadinho fan back in the day, also a super cool player!

ActionArnie

MikeM wrote I personally think Messi dives/plays for fouls as much, or more than Ronaldo, but rarely as theatrically.

Agree, Messi does like to take a tumble.

He's not in the Bale / Young / Suarez league though.

GaryMac

For all you youngsters out there, there can only be one:-

Edson Arantes do Nascimento

GaryMac

(next we will be having "the greatest guitarist ever" thread)

guidothepimmp

Messi is grand, as is Ronaldo BUT..

Neither come close to the likes of zidane, figo, ronaldo, raul etc..

Going further back, van basten, futre, maradona, maldini, etc..

So many greats

ActionArnie

Sho I don't know gents, Messi must be right up there with the greats. When you consider he's so young he seems to have been brilliant for years.

guidothepimmp

Yeh that's true, messi has broken every dang record at club level.. At national team level though.. Nothing..

Only thing that makes me wonder is how effective would messi be in another team.

Any player would be lucky to have pedro, alexis, xavi, iniesta, fabregas, villa etc playing alongside him.
Also, the core of that team have played together so long they can pass on the blind cos someone would be there they know each others movement so well..

Ronaldo has been great at 2 very different style clubs.

Similarly, zidane, figo, etc have made the club transition and maintained form.

Again, not saying messi isn't the real deal, he obviously is, just think he has a bit to go before he is considered a great. And.. Considering portuguese players like figo, costa, pinto, sousa, bento, pauleta.. Ronaldo also has a fair way to go too..

In portugal they still consider him a far distant to figo.. And I tend to agree

Wizard

Also depends what you measure.
Messi isn't selfish ... often passes killer balls for others to score ... which means he doesn't get the goals against his name.

giggsy

Wizard wrote Also depends what you measure.
Messi isn't selfish ... often passes killer balls for others to score ... which means he doesn't get the goals against his name.

I would hate to see the figures if he was as selfish as Ronaldo - as it is, 64 odd goals this season is phenomenal. And he's what, only 24? Two or three years away from his peak... Anyway, I can count myself lucky enough to have seen both Messi and Ronaldo play in the flesh (as well as my heroes Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Lee Sharpe and Eric Cantona)

Wizard

Giggsy wrote (as well as my heroes Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Lee Sharpe and Eric Cantona)

Are those your hero players? Or your favourite players from your hero team?
?

IceCreamMan

Saints 85 pts +34 GD
West ham 83 pts +31 GD

Saturdya Saints vs Coventry
West ham vs Hull city

win is aht is needed

Bob-Dubery

Pah! Maradona, Zidane and Co are johnny-come-lately laaities. Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Bobby Moore - now we're talking.

giggsy

Wizard wrote
Giggsy wrote (as well as my heroes Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Lee Sharpe and Eric Cantona)
Are those your hero players? Or your favourite players from your hero team?
?

Hehe - well Giggs' career is just phenomenal - over 20 years at one club during its most fruitful spell. Scholes - one of the finest midfielders of his generation. Sharpe was the first modern rock 'n roll footballer - booze, babes, parties. And Cantona... enough said. Got to meet them all (well not Scholes) as well as players like Hughes, Pallister, Schmeichel, Bruce, Kanchelskis, Irwin in the early 90s - still one of my favourite days ever ?

IceCreamMan

X-rated Bob wrote Pah! Maradona, Zidane and Co are johnny-come-lately laaities. Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Bobby Moore - now we're talking.

Zidane's goal in the champions league i rate as one of the greatest of all time ..taking it on the chest , turning an scoring in one fluid moment was sheer beauty...

maradona's goal in 86 was magic at work , an no not the hand of God goal.

Pele et al were out of "our" time ...impossible to compare but one thing is for sure , Messi is up there with the greats

Squonk

X-rated Bob wrote Pah! Maradona, Zidane and Co are johnny-come-lately laaities. Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Bobby Moore - now we're talking.

You do have a point Bob, it's very difficult to compare across generations, and it's amazing how quickly we forget who came before.

I have a World Soccer magazine from 1999 where they are trying to determine who the best player of all time is, and obviously Pele came out on top by a couple of miles. But these were votes from fans. Further on in the book they ask ex footballers and managers who they think the best player of all time is, and surprisingly the name that was mentioned the most was George Best.

Bobby Moore was one of those solid players that possibly would have a lot of yellow cards these days due to the "Light on their hooves" players of today.
One of the Greatest players ever(and I am not a West Ham fan ?)

Eusebio made Pele look ordinary in 1966, and still a legend in Madrid and Portugal.

ActionArnie

Comparing greats across generations reminds me of a quote I heard from Don Bradman that I can't find again so I'm not sure of the exact words/facts (or if it indeed even is true), but the story goes something like:

Don was asked by a journalist while seeing the Aussies pummeled by the great West Indian side in 1980 what he thought he'd average against that West Indian attack (given that he'd averaged 99 over his career). His answer was that he'd average in the 60's. The journalist was surprised and asked why he didn't think he'd match his high career average. Don replied saying that it would be unlikely as he was now 72.

giggsy

ActionArnie wrote Comparing greats across generations reminds me of a quote I heard from Don Bradman that I can't find again so I'm not sure of the exact words/facts (or if it indeed even is true), but the story goes something like:

Don was asked by a journalist while seeing the Aussies pummeled by the great West Indian side in 1980 what he thought he'd average against that West Indian attack (given that he'd averaged 99 over his career). His answer was that he'd average in the 60's. The journalist was surprised and asked why he didn't think he'd match his high career average. Don replied saying that it would be unlikely as he was now 72.

:roflmao:

Very good. So hard to prove. Even in the last 4 or 5 years the game has evolved - the pitches are better, the boots are better, the training and diets are better. Hell, most of the teams at the last World Cup even played a 4-5-1 formation when 4-4-2 was typically the only way until a couple of season ago.

guidothepimmp

Squonk wrote
X-rated Bob wrote Pah! Maradona, Zidane and Co are johnny-come-lately laaities. Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Bobby Moore - now we're talking.

Eusebio made Pele look ordinary in 1966, and still a legend in Madrid and Portugal.

Cough cough... Still a legend in lisbon ( Benfica have a statue of him at the stadium entrance)
Di Stefano and Puskas were the Madrid legends..

Squonk

guidothepimmp wrote
Squonk wrote
X-rated Bob wrote Pah! Maradona, Zidane and Co are johnny-come-lately laaities. Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Bobby Moore - now we're talking.

Eusebio made Pele look ordinary in 1966, and still a legend in Madrid and Portugal.
Cough cough... Still a legend in lisbon ( Benfica have a statue of him at the stadium entrance)
Di Stefano and Puskas were the Madrid legends..

Oops , you are completely right. In my mind was a picture of Ronaldo in his Madrid kit being watched by Eusebio in one of my Football Magazines.
Obviously he was at Benfica :-[

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