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In connection with some discussion that went on inside a Hellfire Blues Club thread. Saw this today, looks like a great amp, 22 Watt, sounds like them old big Marshalls, has 2 6V6 power toobz. Interestingly, the maker's comments on 100 watt You-know-whats.





I agree, 18 watt is plenty.
    I feel a song coming on....

    More!
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing!


      To look cool? ?
        The big amps (wattage wise) were developed in the 60's when the PA systems of the day were not even good enough for vocals. Mic'ing-up was almost unheard of so you had to have those powerful amps to be heard above the screaming crowds. The evolution of Vox and Marshall from "small to big" is well documented.
        Also playing at dances and concerts in town halls for example required big amps with could fill the room so to speak.
        Today's pubbish venues are of course much smaller so one can get by using a small amp mic'ed up through a decent PA.
        Be as it may, many players prefer 50-100W 2x12 or 4x12 to the smaller ones...even if it means using horse-power to cart them around ?
          I think we need to get the Plexi + 18watter in the same room and test this theory 8)
            nick wrote: I think we need to get the Plexi + 18watter in the same room and test this theory 8)
            To be honest...I think anyone who has experienced the room-filling goodness of a Marshall stack or a few AC30's played in stereo or a clean Fender Twin will agree that there's nothing to match it. And it's NOT about volume or loudness...
              I gigged a small amp, sounded great at home, but you have to push it too hard with the band. So no cleans. It seems one either has to go for cool drive tones and hardly any cleans at lower volumes, or good cleans with loud drive.

              I can say one thing for the bigger amps, you get something extra. You just move a bit more air and there is something about it that really ads a whole extra dimension. Your neighbours will hate you though ? Try something like a Super Reverb with 4x10 or the 2x12 of an AC30, it is glorious.
                vic wrote:
                nick wrote: I think we need to get the Plexi + 18watter in the same room and test this theory 8)
                To be honest...I think anyone who has experienced the room-filling goodness of a Marshall stack or a few AC30's played in stereo or a clean Fender Twin will agree that there's nothing to match it. And it's NOT about volume or loudness...
                Nick pulled 2 tubes on the plexi and played it on 8. I was sitting opposite it and while it was loud, it wasn't THAT loud. Modern tube watts seem a lot louder. Nick's old Classic 30 was only 30W, but that thing was insanely poweful.
                  yes it seems to be the understanding in the industry at moment that 15-22W is more than sufficient if you mic'ing up .........

                  and lets not forget it's hugely dependant on your style of music......

                  but hey even tho my ideal gig amp is a 15W combo for jazz, the sight of a wall of marshalls is enough to make any musician even jazz muso's just wonder what it would be like to be standing in front of that with 60 000 people screaming at you .......to be keith richards for a day .cool guitars , huge rig ....huge stage ....huge pay cheque ? it's just rock and roll
                    Reinhard wrote:
                    vic wrote:
                    nick wrote: I think we need to get the Plexi + 18watter in the same room and test this theory 8)
                    To be honest...I think anyone who has experienced the room-filling goodness of a Marshall stack or a few AC30's played in stereo or a clean Fender Twin will agree that there's nothing to match it. And it's NOT about volume or loudness...
                    Nick pulled 2 tubes on the plexi and played it on 8. I was sitting opposite it and while it was loud, it wasn't THAT loud. Modern tube watts seem a lot louder. Nick's old Classic 30 was only 30W, but that thing was insanely poweful.
                    We did that with mine at G-Spot at the end of one gig. Not a small room. We put the VVR up to the full 18 watt instead of the half power which is enough for Hellfire's unmic'd gigs. It hurts. Sounds great but it hurts. Maybe Nick's doesn't push as much as it should, maybe its less efficient speakers, but I know that unless we're playing outdoors on a big stage I won't be putting mine on full power any time soon (well I do when I've had a few beers and want to 'test' it).
                      Big amps are totally dependant on style and sound good with certain music.

                      If I was making big crazy noise rock still, with delays, ring mods, phasers etc..... I would ideally run a twin or bassman.... with an ac30......

                      But I am not.....

                      none the less I suggest smaller amps these days thanks to frequent run ins with sound men....
                        I just downgraded from a Super Twin Reverb to a Laney Cub 10. I get this whole cranked up thing but you don't need to crank your twin to 12 to get it sounding good. It just always sounds good, and a crisp clean sound is the best thing to have when using quality pedals. I would have loved to keep the Twin but it was simply too big and heavy to be practical. Nothing beats a good ol' giant fender amp. So now I'm using my newly acquired cub (which I love) until something like a Deluxe Reverb or Marshall 2061x comes around.
                          I think its time someone said it..."Tiny amp syndrome"
                          not all people that make use of lower power amps suffer
                          from this, but a couple do, its oky to use a smaller amp.
                          People don't have to go around, pointing fingers at
                          Guys that use larger amps in an atempt to justify themselves.

                          There is a time and place\type of music\venue\reason for both.
                          I'm going for the applicationon(individual's logic) + I want
                          to use ______(individual'illogical) middle ground.

                          There is no universal right or wrong here...

                          At the end of the day,irrelevantnt of what the guy is using,
                          a twin, or a Tiny Terror, give him a hige 5 if his playing is cool.
                            Erm. No. Really. I have a 50watt tube amp that I've never been able to turn up beyond 3 at any live venue ever. If I'd been on a really big stage I could do it - go up to 6 and blast my hearing. On those stages you have monitors for that. So I have small amp envy. Not big amp envy.

                            Seriously, even stadium pros have to weigh up whether it's worth putting up with insane stage volumes in order to crank 100watt amps. I see some folks like Joe Bonnamassa have them perspex shields in front of their amp so that it doesn't raise stage volumes too high.

                            Huge amps were designed for a reason. Venues were getting bigger and their amps needed more power. That reason died with the development of high powered PA systems in the 70s. You can play to Knebworth stadium with a 5watt Champ and you, and the audience will hear it perfectly.

                            So the benefit of big amps then becomes:

                            1. They're crazy heavy to lug around
                            2. The venue has to be huge if you want to get any power amp drive out of them
                            3. They can kill your hearing with unnecessarily loud stage volumes - if you rely on amp volume instead of these things called, "monitor speakers".
                            4. They're critical to get enough volume when you time travel back to 1967 and play in a 2,000 seat theater with a 60watt announcer's PA.

                            Oh wait. Those aren't advantages. As the guy in the vid says. The magical device called "the microphone" brings you all the volume you need since 1975.
                              singemonkey wrote: Erm. No. Really. I have a 50watt tube amp that I've never been able to turn up beyond 3 at any live venue ever. If I'd been on a really big stage I could do it - go up to 6 and blast my hearing. On those stages you have monitors for that. So I have small amp envy. Not big amp envy.

                              Seriously, even stadium pros have to weigh up whether it's worth putting up with insane stage volumes in order to crank 100watt amps. I see some folks like Joe Bonnamassa have them perspex shields in front of their amp so that it doesn't raise stage volumes too high.

                              Huge amps were designed for a reason. Venues were getting bigger and their amps needed more power. That reason died with the development of high powered PA systems in the 70s. You can play to Knebworth stadium with a 5watt Champ and you, and the audience will hear it perfectly.

                              So the benefit of big amps then becomes:

                              1. They're crazy heavy to lug around
                              2. The venue has to be huge if you want to get any power amp drive out of them
                              3. They can kill your hearing with unnecessarily loud stage volumes - if you rely on amp volume instead of these things called, "monitor speakers".
                              4. They're critical to get enough volume when you time travel back to 1967 and play in a 2,000 seat theater with a 60watt announcer's PA.

                              Oh wait. Those aren't advantages. As the guy in the vid says. The magical device called "the microphone" brings you all the volume you need since 1975.
                              So, as you just mentioned, Mr. Bonnamassa uses what kind of amps? do you think he would be lugging them around + the perspex shield's you speak of
                              if he could be using something else?

                              BTW Bonnamassa has a sig. amp, designed to his specification...it's a nice, big old 100watt.
                              This man could have any thing built, sourced and designed, and he often makes use of his
                              name and finances to do exactly that, to get the tone he wants...and he wants a 100watt.

                              http://www.jbonamassa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15716

                              You have discredited your own argument.

                              Want to try again?
                                i have nothing to add to the jist of the conversation but nice big amps look menacining and mean.....while i may not actually have a use for one i would love to own one to crank every now an again and watch the paint peel off the walls.... something ethereal

                                in the same vein there is no need for ferrari's or 200 bhp superbikes ...but dayum they are a rush when pushed.... PA's have come a moerofa long way and they great for listening to bands , large amps are great for feeling the music ..yeah yeah i dont quite make sense sometimes...

                                  Guess again. You can use high powered amps to get that sound if you (a) play large enough venues that the quarantined amp is still not to loud and (b) quarantine the amp behind perspex.

                                  For a top end pro like Bonamassa, that's worth doing. Roadies lug his amps. He plays big venues so that the volume of the shielded amp is not too great, and he's far enough from the speaker to save his ears. There's space on stage to set up the shielding.

                                  He is in a position to get every ounce of tone out of those amps without overwhelming the venue or damaging his hearing. How many of us are? Are you Vick?
                                    I think it's not about power but tone . And as we all know our tube amps all have a sweet spot . Where it's worth the effort to drag to gigs to get that sound your amp offers . And i'm writing this 20 min before i start a gig and i dragged in my tube amp where i could have just used my modeler and saved a trip to car but i just love that tone i get from the amp so yes if in my case that tone comes from a 15 watt amp or if some rocker needs the tone of 100 watt stack so be it . But in my books short of a kemper type modeling device that seems to be the first modeler to get it right . In my books Tube amps equal tone
                                      singemonkey wrote: Guess again. You can use high powered amps to get that sound if you (a) play large enough venues that the quarantined amp is still not to loud and (b) quarantine the amp behind perspex.

                                      For a top end pro like Bonamassa, that's worth doing. Roadies lug his amps. He plays big venues so that the volume of the shielded amp is not too great, and he's far enough from the speaker to save his ears. There's space on stage to set up the shielding.

                                      He is in a position to get every ounce of tone out of those amps without overwhelming the venue or damaging his hearing. How many of us are? Are you Vick?
                                      The point that I have stated, since the beginning, is that there is a time\place\desire
                                      for these amps, for 100watt amps,5watt amp and everything in between...that's it.

                                      Do you agree or not?
                                        A 50watt 212 would be cool imo. Will drive the speakers as well as a big amp and be around half the volume of a 100watt 412.