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  • Wanted: Educated opinions on Tung Sol 5881 & Gold Lion ECC83

Hi all,

I've got a Laney VC100 loaded with 6 x (no name i think) ECC83 and 4 x Sovtek 5881. It's a 2 channel 2x12 with Celestion 70/80s.
My issue is:

1. The amp is WAY too bright overall (some call it the icepick syndrome). My current fix is to set the treble between 9 (2) and 10'o clock (3) - this just gets me by.
2. I've noticed a massive difference between going into the Hi & Lo inputs. The breakup on Hi is not very musical, and quite harsh at volume past 10' o clock. I'm currently using the Lo input, as it seems to breakup later and when it does, it sounds similar to a Blackface and is quite musical.
3. It sounds very 1D with the gain turned up on the drive channel - The bass lacks punch and definition, the mids aren't creamy, and the highs lack chime and certain roundness/ bell-like quality.

My understanding of valve amps is pretty much non-existent and what i've been reading/researching on the www isn't in ye olde english.

Would changing my preamp tubes (hence the Gold Lion ECC83 reference) and power amp tubes (the Tung Sol 5881 reference) solve some of my problems? Would i also need to change my speakers?
I'm open to cheaper alternatives as well.
    Arjun Menon wrote: Hi all,

    I've got a Laney VC100 loaded with 6 x (no name i think) ECC83 and 4 x Sovtek 5881. It's a 2 channel 2x12 with Celestion 70/80s.
    My issue is:

    1. The amp is WAY too bright overall (some call it the icepick syndrome). My current fix is to set the treble between 9 (2) and 10'o clock (3) - this just gets me by.
    2. I've noticed a massive difference between going into the Hi & Lo inputs. The breakup on Hi is not very musical, and quite harsh at volume past 10' o clock. I'm currently using the Lo input, as it seems to breakup later and when it does, it sounds similar to a Blackface and is quite musical.
    3. It sounds very 1D with the gain turned up on the drive channel - The bass lacks punch and definition, the mids aren't creamy, and the highs lack chime and certain roundness/ bell-like quality.

    My understanding of valve amps is pretty much non-existent and what i've been reading/researching on the www isn't in ye olde english.

    Would changing my preamp tubes (hence the Gold Lion ECC83 reference) and power amp tubes (the Tung Sol 5881 reference) solve some of my problems? Would i also need to change my speakers?
    I'm open to cheaper alternatives as well.

    Not knowing all that much about the valves you speak of, I can say with some certainty that a speaker change will have a much bigger effect on the sound of the amp than changing valves. However, that opens a whole can of worms because buying new valves is simple, even if they don't change the sound much you'll have spares, not so with speakers. If you want, we can arrange for you to come to my place (or whatever) and you can try your amp on my cab with the G12H30s. That'll give you an idea of how the sound can change with different speakers. I see your amp can take an 8ohm speaker cabinet which is what mine is. So there's one option for you.

    You may want to
      ezietsman wrote: Not knowing all that much about the valves you speak of, I can say with some certainty that a speaker change will have a much bigger effect on the sound of the amp than changing valves. However, that opens a whole can of worms because buying new valves is simple, even if they don't change the sound much you'll have spares, not so with speakers. If you want, we can arrange for you to come to my place (or whatever) and you can try your amp on my cab with the G12H30s. That'll give you an idea of how the sound can change with different speakers. I see your amp can take an 8ohm speaker cabinet which is what mine is. So there's one option for you.
      You may want to
      That's an excellent suggestion and something i totally forgot about.
      I would love to try the Laney through your G12H30 cab to get an idea.
      Will send you a pm shortly.

      Cheers
        From what I've read.. Genalex Gold Lions ECC83's are some of the best new production 12AX7 type tubes available, so I don't think you could go wrong with them. They are a tad pricey though.. Another option is the JJ ECC83. I've got one in my deluxe and things only start becoming an earsore when I go past about 2 o'clock with the treble. If you want to go ultra conservative, go for the Mullard 12AX7/ECC83 re-issue - here's a quote "Not really high gain at all, but a real good noise floor and a nice smooth tone that doesn’t encourage ear fatigue the way some preamps can be."

        Re the 5881/6L6's: I'd say the Tung-sols are probably your best bet, but maybe look at the JAN-Phillips too.

        Regarding whether or not changing valves will solve your problems, its definitely a step in the right direction. But, it might not solve them completely and +1 to the speaker upgrade having a more profound effect. Thing is with these things.. everything between your guitar and your ears plays a role in the sound that reaches them, so compared to speakers, the other "small" things like tubes, capacitors etc will all have an effect in colouring tone.
          +1 to the speaker upgrade - I'm not a fan of the 70/80 at the best of times. Do that, then start looking at valves to tweak it further.
            You have sovtek 5881's in there at moment and they are known to be quite hardy, and tolerant to higher voltages. The 5881wxt aren't really true 5881's and I believe are a relabeled russian design. The tung sol's are based on the original 5881 which are unrated, and lower wattage. Just see that you won't cook them in the circuit.
              Thanks for your input guys.
              Just a quick update...I went back to tube amp basics 101 and left the amp on standby for about an hour (maybe a little more) before i played it.
              Now, it is sounding pretty good (in both Hi & Lo inputs). I can't say i'm ecstatic, but i'm getting there.
              There's an annoying hiss when the additional drive on channel deux is engaged, that i'd like to get rid of (this happens even when the volume on the guitar is turned down completely).
              So far i've been playing directly into the amp, trying to get the best out of it before i go ahead an plug in any pedals.
              Although i plan of using my Boss GT10 as a quickfix, i have a feeling i might be going down the individual stompbox route slowly but surely.
              Will post here again once Pandora's box opens up.

              Cheers
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