Averatu
We are all involved in some way in the 'music biz', be it pro's, amateur enthusiasts or weekend jammers. We all own and buy gear, looking for new stuff, the latest stuff. I'm quite new to this forum business, I cant take 'social media' very seriously.
I'm here to informally converse with you all about various and sundry topics, get advice, try give advice where I have experience. But is quite obvious there's a fair few people who post here to promote products, bands, or themselves, and their advise would therefor be biased. For instance, Frikkie working for guitar company XXX would not recommend competitor YYY's 7 string guitar, even if he knows the guitar is better suited to the needs of the person posting a question. Especially bugging are the guys who take every opportunity to mention in their replies 'this cool website' or 'that new software', or the review of a band that read like a 'one sheet'. It smacks of infiltration marketing.
I'm a fairly opinionated bugger, not wanting to step on toes. Feel free to tell me to sod off.
singemonkey
Sod off.
(well, you said we should feel free ?)
People who are affiliated with products list their affiliations in their signatures and there a strict rules about what they can post. Obviously people's bands that barely scrape petrol money are not tightly policed. People generally want to support each other in that respect. So unless it's constant multi-posting spam, it's tolerated and expected.
Some people who appear to be secretly affiliated to products may be what we refer to as, "fans," of said product. I for example have certain preferences that are well known. And yet I receive no cash from anyone for expressing them. And if a product takes a nose-dive, you can bet so would my support for it.
DonovanB
Ja there are rules in place and you end up taking statements from whence they come anyway.
Generally on forums you find a bunch of annoyances, as most people can attest from other forums on the interweb, but I, and many others, find the atmosphere here to be very tolerable. Thanks, to good rules and fair and decent moderation of posts. Just don't feed the trolls...
Averatu wrote:
Especially bugging are the guys who take every opportunity to mention in their replies 'this cool website' or 'that new software', or the review of a band that read like a 'one sheet'. It smacks of infiltration marketing.
I've actually never seen an example of this that hasn't been removed quickly. There are threads that I don't read out of pure lack of interest maybe it has occurred more there? (generally threads like "I'm super new here! Check out my band and LIKE US on Facebook, twitter and everywhere else, VOTE FOR US NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!" and then they never come back)
Hammeron
If you are in a band, and you have the urge to promote a band, then surely you will lean to promoting the band you are in?
And if you own a company thet sells brand X, then surely you are going to promote brand X over brand Y irrespective.
Or am I being silly?
Wether a forum such as this is the platform to do so, is of course highly debatable.
singemonkey
It's against the rules. The reason you're allowed to promote your band, and I mine, is that the mods know that we're not making any kind of actual money out of it, and they're sympathetic to that. However, if it were the Parlotones, the rules would be swiftly enforced, I imagine.
Averatu
Hammeron wrote:
If you are in a band, and you have the urge to promote a band, then surely you will lean to promoting the band you are in?
And if you own a company thet sells brand X, then surely you are going to promote brand X over brand Y irrespective.
Or am I being silly?
You are on the forum because you play guitar and like to communicate with others about it. As I said, most of us are in bands or have jam buddies etc. As singemonkey said above, a community supports its members, and by extension the bands they play in. But its the guy who joined yesterday who is going on about his new software, or his band being on the radio, then never see them again, that bugs me.
Hammeron
Averatu wrote:
Hammeron wrote:
If you are in a band, and you have the urge to promote a band, then surely you will lean to promoting the band you are in?
And if you own a company thet sells brand X, then surely you are going to promote brand X over brand Y irrespective.
Or am I being silly?
You are on the forum because you play guitar and like to communicate with others about it. As I said, most of us are in bands or have jam buddies etc. As singemonkey said above, a community supports its members, and by extension the bands they play in. But its the guy who joined yesterday who is going on about his new software, or his band being on the radio, then never see them again, that bugs me.
Hear hear.
PeteM
I reckon you can tell when someone is punting themselves or their products and this usually switftly dealt with by either the members or the moderators.
I have no problem with those members who contribute regularly with good professional advice punting themselves now and again. If it gets out of hand, I'm sure Alan will deal with it as he has done in the past.
Bob-Dubery
Such matters are clearly dealt with in the
forum rules. Please note that it is acceptable to declare your professional affiliations in your signature.
I'm not sure that it is "quite obvious there's a fair few people who post here to promote products." There's a difference between having brand preferences and punting your own product. I like certain brands of guitar, strings and pick ups etc. and will wax enthusiastic about those brands, but I'm a
user, I don't have a vested interest in those brands. A "fair few" of us have a preference for some brand or other, but rather less of us are actually selling those products.
If you feel that a specific person or persons is stretching or plain overstepping the limit of what is ruled acceptable on this forum then please don't discuss it on the forum. Notify the moderators, preferably via the report to moderator link rather than PM to an individual moderator.
Averatu
I spent some time in CT, and the best way I found to deal with the 'Bergies' is to ignore them. I was just wondering what everyone else's experience has been.
Keira-WitherKay
this whole question is quite a "sticky wicket" ...... since a lot of people in the music biz are on the forum , and it's only natural for people to self promote their art .... i know i do ,
i post my gigs and my profile states where i gig permanantly at moment ........ and it's not just me it's all of us who are active in the scene or affiliated to a product, just read the profiles
but i feel thats also a good thing......everyone who has an active band here discuss's their shows or recordings, people building amps actually show the project step by step, and tutors pass on theory info quite openly and for free....so yes we all know who the pro muso's are which band is playing where with forum members in the band and just who the amp builders and repair guys are , and the tutors or even some distributors are known on this site
and thats a good thing cos if i say seek the services of someone on the site i know repairs or builds amps....... they will know if they try pull a fast one over on me it will be known by all on the forum ...so yes many people do quietly advertise ..
and i agree with singemonkey , alan tolerates us cos we all doing the suffering musician/technichian/tutor thing and he too knows that we can't afford to advertise here , so he isn't losing income , but would lose forum input
and i think it's kinda a case of one hand wash's another ........on the forum cos yes many pro muso's or semi pro's or people in biz of guitar repair or amp building or even music retail . do self promote at times , but they do offer their knowledge on their speciality quite freely on this site.....
i have seldom seen a more helpful site..i may be a fulltime pro muso but i know nothing about tube amps as in specs and mods... .and just today i posted questions about my amp and mods i could do...and the responce answered all my questions in one afternoon, and this advice came from pro amp builders and people expert in the field...... which is invaluable to the forum as a whole
so i do see it as a networking site as well...... and as we all know networking is everything ...... and as long as no one spams your pm box or posts ads 24/7 i think the way alan and norio is handling this is fabulous, and yes if someone gets a bit out of line or rather a lot out of line it is stopped,
so respect to alan and norio and the team for providing a forum that is lenient enough to be of genuine help to us in the SA music biz at all levels , , and they will always have the support of the community because of this, and if you noticed this forum is quite "flame' free and if people need help it happens .......
singemonkey
I personally feel that the mods are too lenient on drive-bys who punt their own music - as opposed to drive-bys who punt products. It annoys me a lot for some reason when some members never post anything except their latest youtube vid or whatever.
I'm all for helping out and listening to whatever forum members produce - even it it's a grainy vid with poor sound - when they're members of the community (as opposed to merely members of the forum). I get bothered when kinder forum members than I engage with this stuff in good faith - only to never hear from the person again until the next time they're looking to up their hit-count. Maybe it doesn't bother them, so what can I say.
Btw, this thread should be on site feedback, non?
Averatu
singemonkey wrote:
I personally feel that the mods are too lenient on drive-bys who punt their own music - as opposed to drive-bys who punt products. It annoys me a lot for some reason when some members never post anything except their latest youtube vid or whatever.
I'm all for helping out and listening to whatever forum members produce - even it it's a grainy vid with poor sound - when they're members of the community (as opposed to merely members of the forum). I get bothered when kinder forum members than I engage with this stuff in good faith - only to never hear from the person again until the next time they're looking to up their hit-count. Maybe it doesn't bother them, so what can I say.
Btw, this thread should be on site feedback, non?
It bugs me as well. Or people who only join to sell stuff!!
Are you a topic fascist now??
PeteM
I don't mind people joining to sell stuff as long as it is personal stuff and not from a company.
Averatu
PeteM wrote:
I don't mind people joining to sell stuff as long as it is personal stuff and not from a company.
I'm always very weary of brand new members selling stuff, like some'N******n' trying to pull a scam. A friend fell for the "I overpaid by mistake so please return the difference" scam of Gumtree.
Keira-WitherKay
when it comes to forum members posting vids /recordings of their "work" i wish more people would post their own 'work"
the internet allows me to hear andrew in PE or singemonkeys/rene/jack flash jr playing blues in CT and viccy in CT playing classical or Bob performing one of his x rated songs and i value hearing what other local muso';s are doing ...... it allows one to see where they coming from in their posts too.... . now if only chad would post some of his 8 string work ? nudge nudge wink wink ,chad we're waiting ....
so punting ones performance video's ect i feel is awesome cos thats how we all share our influences and hope no one clamps down on that .....
i genuinely am interested to hear how people play and their bands too......
but i do agree with blatant posts aimed at promoting just one item..........by someone who is gonna make money out of it
singemonkey
Averatu wrote:
Are you a topic fascist now??
Baby, I'm all kinds of fascist. ?
@Keira: it's not the money making that bothers me with the posting and promotion and whatnot. It's the using of the forum member's good intentions in bad faith, you know? "Here's me playing Recuerdos del Alhambra," or whatever. 15 comments later, and the original poster hasn't responded at all. There's an implicit contract dammit! </rant> ?
Averatu
singemonkey wrote:
Averatu wrote:
Are you a topic fascist now??
Baby, I'm all kinds of fascist. ?
@Keira: it's not the money making that bothers me with the posting and promotion and whatnot. It's the using of the forum member's good intentions in bad faith, you know? "Here's me playing Recuerdos del Alhambra," or whatever. 15 comments later, and the original poster hasn't responded at all. There's an implicit contract dammit! </rant> ?
That sums my point up perfectly.
PeteM
What I find annoying about this thread is that no specific instances of abuse have been cited by the OP. I hate generalisations. What are we achieving by this discussion?
If one doesn't like the forum... for what ever reason... well...
Keira-WitherKay
ok i get your point ...... you want member loyalty is that it ........ or don't i get it ?
