some questions for the tube amp guru's , re mods and everything else

Keira-WitherKay

hi ya all..... well a while back now i posted re the Laney cub10 i found 2nd hand and cheap at my local music store...... which i bought........and now weeks on with the honeymoon period behind me, this tiny amp is still "rocking my boat" i really thought i'd have demoted it from the stage to the rehearsal roon by now...but not so......

but some questions i see online there are some cub 10's that according to he laney site use preamp valves that are

a pre amp loaded with 2 ECC83's

but my unit has ruby (which is the stock valves it comes with but my preamp section has 2x 12AX7's and so do many others on the net

2x 12AX7 preamp tubes, 2x 6V6GT power amp tubes in a push-pull class AB configuration

why is this so ....... ?? and what difference does it make.........?

at the moment i love this compact (8kg) simple (volume/tone/gain) but toneful amp........ in fact it does for me what i want an amp to do......so either my expectations are quite low or this small amp is actually quite suited to my needs ...... (using low input) it just has a lovely light breakup that allows me to still play relatively clean but with that halo of breakup to the sound at almost full volume and wow nobody told me just how loud 10W is....... i'm impressed . no jazz act need look for louder ....and anyway then i'll just just mic's it up

so question 2........ what mods would make a difference ........... ( by difference i mean make it more effecient and reliable....)

1. yes i have plans if i decide to keep this amp in my setup to upgrade the celestion 94db speaker for a jensen 99db speaker available from take 2 for under R900

2. and i spoke to bottled tone who said it would be possible to put a simple passive fx loop onto this amp ..... just for a reverb pedal

3. i have just relaced all the valves but need some suggestion on the "better valves to buy" the amp came stock with ruby valves... i just replaced em with sovteck preamp valves and electro harmonix output valves ...and that choice was because that was what the store had in stock for me .......what can i use to improve on the valves next time....

so what other mods would make it more effecient and would be possible.......? any suggestions?

and last question ..........what if any are the dangers/risks of running this amp almost full .well between 75% and 90% all the time..... i did hear the valves won't last as long .but thats cool if it at least lasts a good 6 months at a time.valves are pretty cheap and the tone this amp has driven hard is where this amp shines....

thanks for the anticipated input ......

and yes i'm now officially a valve convert......... i has really made an audible difference to my sound (compared to modelling and thru the PA)

Cannon

"ECC83" & "12AX7" are the same tubes/values. So dont worry about that.
Awesome amps. I play a Cub 12 all the time. Even on the big stage at the Champagne & Oyster festival....and it kicked ass!

UncleGoatLips

+1 Cubs are the knees of the bee, or even the whole bee leg!!

bottledtone

Cannon wrote: "ECC83" & "12AX7" are the same tubes/values. So dont worry about that.

Yeah, the Americans call them 12AX7 and the Europeans call them ECC83 but same. The JJ are quite good and have a spiral filament for less heater induced hum.

Running the amp full out is shorter valve lifespan and depending on the quality of the transformers, stress on them too.

Keira-WitherKay

UncleGoatLips wrote: +1 Cubs are the knees of the bee, or even the whole bee leg!!

Cannon wrote: "ECC83" & "12AX7" are the same tubes/values. So dont worry about that.
Awesome amps. I play a Cub 12 all the time. Even on the big stage at the Champagne & Oyster festival....and it kicked ass!

and odd thing is .initially when i was looking at amps i totally dismissed them cos i was told they were shite and without listening to em i dismissed them totally prob because of the price , till that morning i saw one in the music store 2nd hand and under 2K and plugged my strat into it played it loud for about 15 min and literally picked it up from the floor and took it to the till bought it on the spot..... it was a no brainer at that price and with that tone......... maybe i'm lucky that i like the tone it has........ cos i don't think they that versatile but that one sound it does have is as uncle goatlips said

the knees of the bee

well to my ear...... and my genre of music

Keira-WitherKay

bottledtone wrote:
Cannon wrote: "ECC83" & "12AX7" are the same tubes/values. So dont worry about that.

Running the amp full out is shorter valve lifespan and depending on the quality of the transformers, stress on them too.

and i imagine the transformer can be modded/upgraded to handle more gain ? as in improved on.......... or just replaced if it gives probs......
cos the magic to me of this amp is it's a compact light packge that sounds awesome when driven hard......which is prime for me to have good tone but lightweight .. but if i can't drive it hard reliably i must rethink this..... as all he tone i like happens above 75% volume.../gain but i don't want the amp failng on me often....... then i may as well save the money i would spend modding it and just buy something that does what i want but is reliable.....

bottledtone

Reliabilty is shown in time, and at least it seems like a simple circuit so it should have less to fail. I just find it's a bit odd that the preamp tubes are placed next to the mains transformer. Just a design i would have not chosen but hey, that's the cool thing about all different manufacturers...... more different stuff to choose from.

ezietsman

bottledtone wrote: Reliabilty is shown in time, and at least it seems like a simple circuit so it should have less to fail. I just find it's a bit odd that the preamp tubes are placed next to the mains transformer. Just a design i would have not chosen but hey, that's the cool thing about all different manufacturers...... more different stuff to choose from.

They're prob being run quite clean, otherwise there would have been lots of hum. Is what I'm thinking...

makepeace

I wouldn't think that its going to have MASSIVE implications for reliability if you crank it. Amps weren't designed to not be turned up, other wise they wouldn't have that capability. If you want your tubes to last FOREVER, then by all means go ahead and never turn the thing past 3, but I wouldn't mind replacing tubes every couple of years, especially if it means I get to turn it up and get nice tone and also to try different tube combinations when you replace them.

I've got new production JJ 6V6 s's in my Deluxe and they sound sweet to my untrained ears. Also have the JJ 12AX7 that bottledtone talks about. If you really want to get the thing sounding overboard sweet, trawl ebay for some NOS valves and hope you get lucky. Either that or prepare to spend a whack of cash on NOS's from reputable dealers like Tube Depot/The Tube Store etc.

Regarding "mods", I don't know what that amp would sound like without its negative feedback loop, but if its nice, you could make it switchable. If you weren't completely happy with what it sounds like, you could also fiddle with the tonestack to get a curve/voicing that you might prefer.

Sure you could upgrade the transformers, but its not going to give it more gain. Will most likely be more reliable and will sound a little sweeter, but its very expensive, obviously depending on what you go for.

Tone

Contact Sanita at Mr Valve in Pretortia and see if they have some Nos ECC83 Siemens, Telefunken, RFT or Mullard pre amp tubes. They are usually well priced and if you replace your preamp tubes with one of these you can really change the flavour of your amp sound. The speaker mod mentioned is also a very good move.

Enjoy Experimenting.

Wizard

Keira WitherKay wrote: so what other mods would make it more effecient and would be possible.......? any suggestions?

I had one of these.
It was instant love which converted me permanently to this type of tone.

I upgraded the speaker which made a wonderful improvement

Here's what it looks like inside.
(pics taken while it was dissassembled while I was replacing the speaker)

Keira-WitherKay

Wizard wrote:
Keira WitherKay wrote: so what other mods would make it more effecient and would be possible.......? any suggestions?
I had one of these.
It was instant love which converted me permanently to this type of tone.

what type of tone would you classify this under......... to my ears ( and i refer to the cleans that break up just a bit ) i hear the fender sound in some ways but fatter ..not as chimey as a fender but not too disimilar either but why i ask is i can't describe te tone it in 3 words that people go ah..i get it

[deleted]

Keira WitherKay wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Keira WitherKay wrote: so what other mods would make it more effecient and would be possible.......? any suggestions?
I had one of these.
It was instant love which converted me permanently to this type of tone.

what type of tone would you classify this under......... to my ears ( and i refer to the cleans that break up just a bit ) i hear the fender sound in some ways but fatter ..not as chimey as a fender but not too disimilar either but why i ask is i can't describe te tone it in 3 words that people go ah..i get it

What you hearing is typical of the power tubes, that is what a 6v6 sound is... clean... but breaks up slightly as you start pushing it...
Both my Swarts have 6v6s in, and it doesnt have nearly the crunch that the Vox AC15HW has which I became so used too.

Loving the big fat juicy, sweet, glassy shimmer that just keeps on giving. Very musical a 6v6 imo...

Wizard

Keira WitherKay wrote: what type of tone would you classify this under......... to my ears ( and i refer to the cleans that break up just a bit ) i hear the fender sound in some ways but fatter ..not as chimey as a fender but not too disimilar either but why i ask is i can't describe te tone it in 3 words that people go ah..i get it

Remember I'm new to this - so don't have much of a reference to go by.
?

I had a Laney Cub 10 and Blackstar HT-5; which are very different.
I really liked the sound of a Strat through the Cub 10; and sought to get that sound with an amp that had more effects.

I replaced the Cub 10 and HT-5 with a Fender SuperChamp XD which, to my ears, includes the Cub 10 type of tone which I really loved.

MikeM

I wouldn't have the circuit modded at all if it were up to me. Being a pcb amp, most likely it'll just be value changes.

So that means not THAT much can be changed, that can be changed will be quite a bit of effort for very little gains.

You can change the EQ, and gain without much of a struggle.

If you want to throw money at it, upgrading the output transformer will give a bit more output, more low end, and change the signature some (This it real blackmagic mojo stuff now), I'd also add a choke if I were doing work this major.

From what I understand, you play pretty clean most of the time? I'd then consider having one of the cathode bypass caps on the preamp side removed, quick and easy and will lower gain some.

Keira-WitherKay

thanks guys for the responces .always knowlegable and welcome........ yes i threw that question out there to see what is possible...... but yes will start with a speaker upgrade and then try some better tubes.........

and if i'm still keen on using the amp at my gigs .then maybe a transformer change ect may be viable...remember the beauty is i bought this amp so cheap under 2 K that even if i spend 3 K -4K modding it over time and it's a great amp i can use at pro gigs which is small and light and with the sound i like and will only have cost me 5 K or so .6K max . not bad considering a blues junior is about 6.8K (after discount they about 10K retail) before modding the valves and speakers which i see everyone does who buys a blues junior ... so this idea makes perfect sense to me...... ?

and the crazy thing is even as it stands at the moment pre any mods.it is doing a fabulous job........on my stage ....... the mods would be to sweeten the amp so to speak and not mods necesarry before i can use it on stage..... already this amp is a winner ...... the only test it has to pass is reliability...... which is essential

Gearhead

My advice would be to leave the OPT (output tranny) since changing that will change the character of the amp you like. I agree with Mike that although changing components may improve the amp's tone, it is not an awfully good idea with a pcb amp (unless the pcb quality of yours is downright good). Just get your hands on the best tubes you can put in there, and NOS will convert you the same way you were converted to a tubie by this amp.

AlanRatcliffe

The speaker change will make the biggest difference and a set of good valves will sweeten it further and probably be more reliable.

I agree with GH - the OPT is an integral part of the character, If you like what you're getting already, you shouldn't change.

Cannon

Totally Agreed!
8)

UncleGoatLips

Personally I think the thing you can do that will make the biggest difference is changing the driver. the difference in tone between different valves and a new driver, the driver will have the biggest impact.

So get a speaker that sounds the way you want it and if you're still not 100% happy then go to the other stuff.