Hunters

WantzChas · 2011-06-12T09:29:53+00:00

Are there any of you guys out there that are keen rifle/bow hunters. I've always been a keen rifle hunter, but picked up a compound bow a couple of months ago. It is so much fun. Plan on going on my first bow hunt in July/August. Anyone have some good hunting stories to share?

deefstes

I'm glad to see the thread went from "Dude, you're out of your mind. You are outnumbered 7000 to 1 here!" to more balanced opinions. Turns out the OP isn't outnumbered 7000 to 1 after all.

I have hunted a Blesbok once, didn't really enjoy it as much as it was made out to be by my friends who hunt regularly. I did enjoy the biltong though. Would I do it again? I don't know, probably not. Having said that though, I have no problem with people who do hunt. I also disapprove of trophy hunting but I will definitely not get all morally superior when someone does choose to do that. What I do get seriously irked with though is people getting all sanctimonious about issues like this if their own lifestyles aren't 100% above reproach. And yes, if you eat any form of meat then your lifestyle is not. Don't give me this hunting vs. killing arguments or whatever other rubbish, if you eat meat, you are as guilty of killing as the hunter.

I remember, as a kid, when my parents built the house in which I eventually grew up, I discovered all sorts of interesting critters on the building site. I remember catching a shrew and showing it to my mom and I also remember finding a few snakes. I suspect none of those snakes would have been venomous but what difference does it make? This is our domain and we will kill anything we find here to make room for our cured lawns and sterile living spaces. Today there is no sign of any of those critters. In fact, despite being a keen birdwatcher and nature lover, I have yet to see any species of shrew since that one I caught on our house's building site. The fact is, our lifestyle does not leave much room for the existence of any of these critters. Once we've slapped a house on their habitat we will continue to put out rat poison and insecticide to finish off any creatures that might be hardy (and foolish) enough to survive the first assault. Somehow very few of these bunny-huggers who get so precious about hunting are particularly perturbed by this fact.

arjunmenon

Deefstes' post is by far the most rational one i've read so far.
I've been mulling on how to post on this thread..and DS really nailed the point i was going to make.
I haven't hunted in a long time. I've had rifles since i was 12 and spent most of my school holidays at my grandfather's coffee plantation.
We hunted wild boar (considered vermin because they'd destroy plantation workers' veggie gardens) and deer (sambar) regularly for meat.
The nearest shop was approx. 120 - 130 Kms away and they only sold coffee, tea, salt, sugar, red chilli, rice and 12 bore shells.
Did i enjoy it? Maybe a little. Do i enjoy seeing animals in pain? Hell no. I learnt a few very important things from this:

1. If you're not in danger of losing your life, don't waste the bullet.
2. If you're not going to eat it, don't waste the bullet.
3. If you're not capable of killing your prey cleanly, don't waste the bullet.

deebee

In my opinion it is totally impossible to be ''at one with nature in the bush'', and then still kill something that is a part of nature. Ted Nugent is hardly a worthwhile ''role model'' as he enjoys killing with primitive weapons, as he said in an interview, ''his proudest moment was the day his son killed his first deer and became a man''. In his lame ''mind'', it takes a killing to become a ''man''. Someone also mentioned ''hippies'' dictating about killing animals. So what, the hippie era ended at the end of the sixties, if their ethos is still relevant to-day - good. As for myself, i refused to eat meat from the age of six, my folks couldn't understand it and didn't cater for me specifically, to this day i don't eat meat, chicken, fish or eggs. I'm now 64. I have written many songs about the slaughtering of animals and their terrible treatment around the world, and hope one day to record them so as to put one more voice out there with the rest of the ''bunny huggers''. A term which is far more endearing than ''hunter''.

Squonk

deebee wrote In my opinion it is totally impossible to be ''at one with nature in the bush'', and then still kill something that is a part of nature. Ted Nugent is hardly a worthwhile ''role model'' as he enjoys killing with primitive weapons, as he said in an interview, ''his proudest moment was the day his son killed his first deer and became a man''. In his lame ''mind'', it takes a killing to become a ''man''. Someone also mentioned ''hippies'' dictating about killing animals. So what, the hippie era ended at the end of the sixties, if their ethos is still relevant to-day - good. As for myself, i refused to eat meat from the age of six, my folks couldn't understand it and didn't cater for me specifically, to this day i don't eat meat, chicken, fish or eggs. I'm now 64. I have written many songs about the slaughtering of animals and their terrible treatment around the world, and hope one day to record them so as to put one more voice out there with the rest of the ''bunny huggers''. A term which is far more endearing than ''hunter''.

you are entitled to your opinion, but there are many with a different viewpoint. A bit harsh labeling Ted Nugent's mind as Lame as we have no idea what goes on in Ted's mind, what kind of a person he is etc.

In one breath you are all for animals and in the next, writing off human beings without knowing anything about them. bit of a contradiction ?

deebee

Not really a contradiction. I have always been for animals, and i have read a few interviews in guitar mags by Ted Nugent. He does not come across as a particularly decent human being. He enjoys killing, he goes on to stage on a bison, why on earth should an animal be subjected to that, he denigrates other musos who he does not like, ie, Jimmy Page, slated him big time. The interviews, if put into print verbatim, and correctly do not show him up in a good light. So, i stick to my opinion.
I would like to know what his opinion of Jeff Beck is, as JB is also an animal lover, patron of an animal charity and a vegetarian, and one of the best guitarists ever.

deefstes

deebee wroteIn my opinion it is totally impossible to be ''at one with nature in the bush'', and then still kill something that is a part of nature.

Which suggests that wild Lions or Leopards aren't exactly "at one with nature" either? Where has it been decided that being "at one with nature" requires that you don't touch it? Like so many other species on this planet, we are killers. There is nothing intrinsically wrong about that, it's the way we evolved.

I'm not trying to force you into eating meat. Of course you have every right to choose not to. I'm just asking that you base your judgement of others on reasonable arguments and not pecksniffian emotional arguments.

I'm saying this because I believe there is an argument to be made about the way in which we (as a species) kill other species. Note, I'm saying "the way in which we kill" not "the fact that we kill". And by that I refer to whether or not we kill in a sustainable way. I believe the way we kill is far less cruel and torturous than the way lions kill. Did you know that a pack of lions will feast on a buffalo for hours before it actually dies? I honestly believe that, in comparison, we have devised very humane ways of killing the prey that we eat.

Warren

deefstes wrote pecksniffian

New word! ???

deebee

When lions and leopards, or any other predator for that matter, kill, it is to eat, and not for fun, which in the case of hunters is purely for ''fun''. Fun for them, not the animal. Large carnivores are born with very large molars and incissor teeth. That is the way they were created. These teeth are expressly for ripping and tearing. I very much doubt whether any dentist on this planet has ever seen a human with these self same teeth. Go back in history when this continent teemed with wild life, ditto North and South America. Total decimation. By the same token, i fully understand the thinking behind letting rich fat cats with more money than soul come over here, kill some totally defenceless animal from a nice safe distance, and then go back home having been re-classified as a ''great white hunter''.
As long as the money is put into conservation.
''PECKSNIFFIAN'' ???? hens tears maybe, a chicken with a cold or the ''sniffles''. Could it be hunting terminology for ''my pellet gun is loaded, where's that ele, lemme at 'im, i'll show him who's in charge of the jungle.
By the way, there is a great deal of emotion in seeing a magnificent animal lying dead or dying on the ground.

NorioDS

Personally, I wouldn't hunt or be OK with hunting purely for "entertainment". Can't agree with that at all. If the meat is going to be eaten by someone, then it's definitely fine by me but if it's just killing for the sake of fun or target practise, then I say take up shooting skeets and leave the animals alone.

Warren

deebee wrote When lions and leopards, or any other predator for that matter, kill, it is to eat, and not for fun, which in the case of hunters is purely for ''fun''. Fun for them, not the animal. Large carnivores are born with very large molars and incissor teeth. That is the way they were created. These teeth are expressly for ripping and tearing. I very much doubt whether any dentist on this planet has ever seen a human with these self same teeth. Go back in history when this continent teemed with wild life, ditto North and South America. Total decimation. By the same token, i fully understand the thinking behind letting rich fat cats with more money than soul come over here, kill some totally defenceless animal from a nice safe distance, and then go back home having been re-classified as a ''great white hunter''.
As long as the money is put into conservation.
''PECKSNIFFIAN'' ???? hens tears maybe, a chicken with a cold or the ''sniffles''. Could it be hunting terminology for ''my pellet gun is loaded, where's that ele, lemme at 'im, i'll show him who's in charge of the jungle.
By the way, there is a great deal of emotion in seeing a magnificent animal lying dead or dying on the ground.

Actually, many animals (from domestic cats to killer whales to chimpanzees to lions) kill for any number of reasons, sometimes to eat, sometimes to destroy offspring not their own and sometimes even for sport. It's easy to have a romantic view of the natural world as being wild and carefree, but the reality is that it can be a very cruel place where competition is fierce and unforgiving.

As for our physiology relating to what we eat: did you know that Duikers (as one example) will scavenge from small animal corpses (and even capture rodents or other small animals)?

As for "white hunters", these are the people who LEAD the fat-cats on the expeditions, though I don't think we call them that anymore.

Animals in all forms are increasingly commoditised, from cattle used as beef stock to wild animals in game-reserves. It's now nearly impossible to come across an animal living in an environment untouched or unregulated by humans, unless you head out to some very remote spots of the world (which ironically will cost you a lot of money). I think hunters get a lot of flack that's unwarranted when there are arguably worse transgressions committed daily against the animal kingdom by the people who stock your supermarket (as one example).

deefstes

deebee wroteWhen lions and leopards, or any other predator for that matter, kill, it is to eat, and not for fun

First of all, how do you know? Secondly, what does it matter? Thirdly, you're mixing two issues here. Do you refrain from eating meat because big game hunters with lots of dosh fly in and shoot elephants for fun or are you implying that we're farming cattle and then kill them for fun?

deebee wroteLarge carnivores are born with very large molars and incissor teeth. That is the way they were created. These teeth are expressly for ripping and tearing. I very much doubt whether any dentist on this planet has ever seen a human with these self same teeth.

Of course humans don't have those teeth. We are not carnivores. We have teeth consistent with other omnivores - not herbivores. There is no doubt that we are equipped to eat meat. The human morphology, gastrointestinal anatomy and anthropology all point to the obvious fact that we are omnivorous. So once again, the argument against eating meat would be ecological not evolutionary.

deebee wrote''PECKSNIFFIAN'' ???? hens tears maybe, a chicken with a cold or the ''sniffles''. Could it be hunting terminology for ''my pellet gun is loaded, where's that ele, lemme at 'im, i'll show him who's in charge of the jungle.

Peck·sniff·i·an [pek-snif-ee-uhn] –adjective
"hypocritically and unctuously affecting benevolence or high moral principles."

deebee wroteBy the way, there is a great deal of emotion in seeing a magnificent animal lying dead or dying on the ground.

No doubt. I have seen lions eating a live buffalo and don't believe for one moment that I wasn't very emotional. So what does that mean?

Norio wrote Personally, I wouldn't hunt or be OK with hunting purely for "entertainment". Can't agree with that at all. If the meat is going to be eaten by someone, then it's definitely fine by me but if it's just killing for the sake of fun or target practise, then I say take up shooting skeets and leave the animals alone.

Like I said earlier, I also dislike that practice but I won't go as far as being righteously indignant. The question I ask is "where do you draw the line?" So it's OK to kill to survive but not to kill for pleasure? Let's shift the boundaries only slightly. Is it OK to kill, not to survive, but just for extra food? Is it OK to kill not even just for extra food but just for some comfort? We do this every day we build a house, I recounted earlier how my parents' house sterilised the environment on which it was built.

Where do you draw the line? When does the killing become unjustified?

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