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  • looking for 12" voiced for fender tones for amp build what suggestions

hi ya all, after fighting off the gas to just buy that princeton, and believe me it was tough but my scottish and jewish blood could not get around the fact that it was double the price here in sa that it is in the states............. and since a golden offer has appeared where i will get a similar amp built ....... but with a 12 " speaker ..... so yay keira gets her boutique amp ? (of course designed and built like a princeton ..but better )

the quetion is what speaker .cos i want that fender tone..but i also want an efficient speaker ...... so prob looking at an eminence patriot 12" (102db) or a high quality jensen(the average range of jensens are standard in a princeton but everyone replaces the valves and speakers in their princetons as the basic 1st mod) so the stock speaker is not prob what i want ....... but they are not freely available here.....

so guys ...1st question any suggestions......... remember we talking fender tone so celestions are not quite right but can do i guess.... but they have more a british sound i want that pure american bf tone ...... so what do you think

2nd question if anyone has anything "special" tonally and effecient in a 12" ...... lying around your workshop even slightly worn in ....just not trashed ........ and wanna sell let me know...... no promises but i may be interested......

    I think I understand now.
    You want Fender; but not Fender.
      A couple of weeks ago I asked the question on this forum about an Eminence Ragin Cajun and if I think it was just over a thousand was a fair price to pay. Alan R reckoned that considering that you cant get them here that readily it is fair. Something to that effect anyway. Well that is a 10". That is a good speaker. I saw the porice on take2. Considering that there is no import duty etc for you to pay I think that is OK. So, why dont you meander over to Eminence site, check what's available and see what you can get it for on take2? They also have a whole bunch of Jensen as well.
        Wizard wrote: I think I understand now.
        You want Fender; but not Fender.
        ? yep you got it ... i want a fender voiced speaker but one thats more effeciet than their stock models.......... so yeah maybe a better jensen than the one they use in princeton will be the ticket ...... so yes not looking to change the tone just get more effecient
          Easiest way to get the classic Fender tones is to stick with Jensen, but go higher wattage if you want more efficiency. The C12N is the 50W model which has a 98.4 dB sensitivity (the C10R is only 93.8dB). It's a little warmer and smoother than the lower power models (but the new Jensens are brighter than the vintage models, so that balances out nicely). Take2 has the C12N for R 1,126.

          BTW - a 12" will also give you a better spread of sound than a 10", which tend to be very directional for some reason.

          Jensen has a page comparing all the speakers, including clips (not the best clips but they give you the idea): http://jensentone.com/tonechart.php
            98dB is still significantly less loud than a 102dB speaker like the Celestion Blue. And since the Gold we all know that the Blue is actually not that expensive ?
            As far as clean tone goes, I think the Blue chime plus Fender presence control in the amp will do a fine job in the sparkle department.
              Contact Weber and ask them for advice? 8)
                i went to the jensen sight alan suggested and listened to the C12N and compared the soundclips to a few and yeah compared to the 10 that comes with the princeton as standard the C12N is so much more open and big ..... i see why princeton owners replace the 10" so quickly ....... almost a standard mod if you buy one.......

                but gear head has a point ........ 102 db is prob 1st prize......... i see that the eminence pariot hemp model is also 102db but i have not heard the celestion or the eminence yet .......

                i do have a fear of not putting in a traditionally fender speaker (like jensen) and finding the amp loses some fender tonality and sounds more like something else or even not as characteristically fender ..........cos this build is just an exercise to actually prove that for less than the asking price of a princeton i can have a boutique quality amp built to fender princeton design and using top end components and good valves at build but basically i want that 100% fender tone and feel to the amp...so like having fender custom shop build me a princeton by hand rather than a factory stock model ......... .... so i know i don't want a fender hybrid.....

                but i guess the test will be to wait till the amps built ..... then try to get my hands on (loan ) a few speakers and try em out and see what works..maybe i'd like a celestions tone....... maybe not .......

                but i will try listen to the celestion.... otherwise the other alternative is to buy the jensen (very cheap ..imported by take 2 for just over 1K ) which is better than the stock speaker ...and decidedly fender tone ... and then allow myself time to play it and then try other speakers........ in the 102db range...... if the amp isn't loud enough ..but in reality i'm not using this for rock ...... so it may be just fine......

                but i'm open to more and all suggestion .......

                ? anyway maybe i must leave a hint a room to mod the amp later or i'll get so bored if it's perfect from day 1 ........ ?
                  Not sure if it answers your questions:
                    Y'know, I was also thinking of the Blue yesterday - I love the Blue, it's my favourite all-round guitar speaker (I have a Weber Alnico Blue Dog and a Alnico Silver Bell in my Twin - both variations on the Blue), but it's quite different from the ceramic Jensens used in the Fenders. Compresses more as only Alnico can, has more chime and a smoother drive at the expense of a little of the Fender bite and sparkle.

                    The Gold and the Blue are both 100dB though, not 102dB.

                    Weber will recommend the Ceramic VIntage 12F150 50W model with light doping, Which is basically a C12N the way Jensen used to build them.
                      Keira WitherKay wrote: i went to the jensen sight alan suggested and listened to the C12N and compared the soundclips to a few and yeah compared to the 10 that comes with the princeton as standard the C12N is so much more open and big ..... i see why princeton owners replace the 10" so quickly ....... almost a standard mod if you buy one.......

                      but gear head has a point ........ 102 db is prob 1st prize......... i see that the eminence pariot hemp model is also 102db but i have not heard the celestion or the eminence yet .......

                      i do have a fear of not putting in a traditionally fender speaker (like jensen) and finding the amp loses some fender tonality and sounds more like something else or even not as characteristically fender ..........cos this build is just an exercise to actually prove that for less than the asking price of a princeton i can have a boutique quality amp built to fender princeton design and using top end components and good valves at build but basically i want that 100% fender tone and feel to the amp...so like having fender custom shop build me a princeton by hand rather than a factory stock model ......... .... so i know i don't want a fender hybrid.....

                      but i guess the test will be to wait till the amps built ..... then try to get my hands on (loan ) a few speakers and try em out and see what works..maybe i'd like a celestions tone....... maybe not .......

                      but i will try listen to the celestion.... otherwise the other alternative is to buy the jensen (very cheap ..imported by take 2 for just over 1K ) which is better than the stock speaker ...and decidedly fender tone ... and then allow myself time to play it and then try other speakers........ in the 102db range...... if the amp isn't loud enough ..but in reality i'm not using this for rock ...... so it may be just fine......

                      but i'm open to more and all suggestion .......

                      ? anyway maybe i must leave a hint a room to mod the amp later or i'll get so bored if it's perfect from day 1 ........ ?
                      I thought that you had concluded that you didn't need more volume than the 10" Princeton Reverb in the previous thread? So what makes you think you need more now? You're going with a 12", which will already give you a lot more than the 10" (even the less efficient 12"s). SO personally I would see no need to go for something like a Celestion Blue. You're going to compromise your tone and lets face it - they are expensive at $300 ex shipping. Also, you said you're not aiming for clean tone, but the "classic fender" edge of breakup tone. A cleaner/louder/more efficient speaker is going to result in having to use pedals to get your amp to drive to that point, which will add colour (unwanted in this case) to the sound. There's a reason why they used the speakers they did. If you're going for a specific tone that's been done before, why muddle? Go with the recipe that others have perfected instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

                      Weber recommends their 10F150T, why don't you consider the 12F150T, its bigger brother? Weber is a great manufacturer - their speakers are affordable, well made and they have excellent customer service. I think someone on the forum even got a replacement sent to them by Weber because of something that was awry. I can vouch for Weber as the 12A125A I got from them (recommended by them) sounds super sweet in my Deluxe. At about $200 inc shipping its a steal. + the reviews online are outstanding and I've seen them recommended for blackface amps on more than one forum..

                      I would go for a 25W 12F150T, and highly doubt I'd be sorry for it.
                        makepeace wrote: I think someone on the forum even got a replacement sent to them by Weber because of something that was awry.
                        I found one of Reinhard's replacement speakers for his Super Reverb was slightly buzzy from new. Weber sent a replacement, no questions asked.
                          makepeace wrote: I thought that you had concluded that you didn't need more volume than the 10" Princeton Reverb in the previous thread? So what makes you think you need more now?
                          well i guess playing it safe....... cos i want it for predominantly fingerstyle jazz and instrumental guitar .yes i want a hint of breakup up just a hint ......... and the volume on tap would be nice to have cos most gigs i would do are fairly intimate and if possible i'd prefer not to mic up which i would be prepared to do for bigger venues...... well if it's too loud i can just go back to an original speaker or maybe a good idea is buy both ..... and have the option to boost the volume by swopping out speakers before a bigger gig ......cos with what i'm saving on the princeton price i would still be saving if i bought both speakers......

                          as i mentioned earlier the true test will be gigging it ........
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