The Challenge April 2011 Please Vote

Renesongs

Gee guys thanks a great response. Everybody gets 3 votes that 1 vote for each category. Voting closes Sat 30 April 2011.

[quote author=Jacquesg4j link=action=profile;u=1709 date=1302274210] http://www.box.net/shared/q4kfot478g There it is... First time doing a full recording... And I actually mic'd up my amp for this! As it's my first time lets go for BEGINNER!! [/quote]

[quote author=Dingwall link=action=profile;u=3055 date=1302734131] http://www.box.net/shared/8dbodg8gfz I think 'advanced' but happy for you to place where appropriate. Not too experienced with computer recording but this is a great outlet for improving these skills so I hope for improvement. DW [/quote]

[quote author=Mannemarak link=action=profile;u=1543 date=1302797943] Here is my entry: Beginner http://www.box.net/shared/s4abjlbsoe [/quote]

[quote author=Schmorglebot link=action=profile;u=2711 date=1302878014] After being a casual observer to these competitions Ive finally decided to have a go. Why mess around, ill enter in the advanced category .... for advanced emotion. Enjoy. http://www.box.net/shared/4fjo2pl3pa [/quote]

[quote author=X-rated Bob link=action=profile;u=411 date=1303147387] http://www.box.net/shared/txxt9dq0o0 Category A please. [/quote]

[quote author=Kalcium link=action=profile;u=3081 date=1303228688] Heres my entry for the April Challenge, entering in the beginners category :) http://www.box.net/shared/37qycvd77i [/quote]

[quote author=CostaFonix link=action=profile;u=2357 date=1303328546] I managed to find some time to edit a song I wrote, for this month's competition. Its called VerySadSong :'( :'( and it was recorded using a microphone I got from Skylark - an SE Elecronics GM10, using my Martin DM guitar. Some messy bits but I decided to enter it anyway just for the fun of it. the link is http://www.box.net/shared/cq38agvihn Please enter me in the intermidiate section again. [/quote]

[quote author=Squonk link=action=profile;u=298 date=1303336801] http://www.box.net/shared/ufzfuat9oy Intermediate or maybe even beginner Peavey T-60, Line 6, Behringer, Toshiba Laptop. Fingers - Rhythm, Jazz III - Lead [/quote]

[quote author=Seventhson link=action=profile;u=1733 date=1303374371] http://www.box.net/shared/lq3ipdxnrt B_death_comes. Very angry song :-[ [/quote]

[quote author=PeteM link=action=profile;u=1544 date=1303394037] Here's my entry. http://www.box.net/shared/7h4qlexlu5 [/quote]

[quote author=deefstes link=action=profile;u=2979 date=1303402331] I've decided that I won't be able to get a better recording of the vocals done before cut off time so I might as well submit my entry. It's a pity as I do think the lyrics contribute towards the theme nicely but what the heck, this will have to do: http://www.box.net/shared/44zzt6ecyi

For what it's worth, I've put in all this effort trying to get the vocals done, that It'd be a shame to delete the file, never to be heard by anyone. So here is the version with the vocals (recorded through a laptop's internal microphone): http://www.box.net/shared/iq0pvubz2i But the first one will be my official entry. Should probably have mentioned that I'm entering as "intermediate". [/quote]

[quote author=G-Man link=action=profile;u=2202 date=1303422481] 12 minutes to spare, not too shabby.... http://www.box.net/shared/m17tz5t78v Let the fail commence. [/quote]

[quote author=chris77 link=action=profile;u=1551 date=1303474372] http://www.box.net/shared/65c7zuk4zq My entry for the Emotion Challenge. The missus says it sounds like a love song, which came as a bit of a suprise to me to be honest... :o
Anyhow, here it is. All crits and comments welcome. :-[ [/quote]

[quote author=FruitarGeek link=action=profile;u=2434 date=1303497389] http://www.box.net/shared/jsaimacb8i Intermediate Glad I was able to just get this in. I've had almost no time to do this one, but I had an idea from the beginning and I wanted to see it through. So here it is. Please excuse the bad mixing and all that. Its a rushed Job. [/quote]

(old forum) Poll Results: Emotional Music

Jacquesg4j (B): 18
Dingwall (A): 10
Mannemarak (B): 5
Schmorglebot (A): 4
X-rated Bob (A): 5
Kalcium (B): 1
CostaFonix (I): 14
Squonk (I): 11
Seventhson (B): 2
PeteM (A): 11
deefstes (I): 7
G-Man B): 2
chris77 (I): 2
FruitarGeek (I): 2

Bob-Dubery

I'd like to make a general observation here. This particular competition is about making the listener feel the emotion in your piece, so technical considerations are less important here.

BUT

There are several entries where the ending is abrupt or there is a fairly artless fade even though there is enough time to bring the piece to a satisfying conclusion. In terms of presentation it's not great, and in one or two cases it may have spoiled the musical journey and thus dulled the emotion.

Mannemarak

I agree....also, there seems to be alot of beginners that actually sound at least intermediate or even advanced...but that is just my opinion. I have listened to every entry and I have learned alot already ? and my nerves are shot since it is the first time anyone listens to any of my guitar playing.

Bob-Dubery

Mannemarak wrote: I agree....also, there seems to be alot of beginners that actually sound at least intermediate or even advanced...but that is just my opinion.

And a perfectly reasonable one. IMO there's a chancer in the "Advanced" category.

These things shouldn't matter as much for this challenge. Indeed how do you rank somebody as "advanced" or "intermediate" or "beginner" when it comes to conveying emotion via music? Does technique even help a person in this regard?

Indeed the categorisation might prove a distraction in this case by leading us to thinking in terms of playing rather than in terms of conveying emotion.

PeteM

Lots of entries hey? Great. 8)
I've downloaded them all, but it will take a bit of time to listen and digest them, so my comments will follow.

Mannemarak

X-rated Bob wrote: Indeed the categorisation might prove a distraction in this case by leading us to thinking in terms of playing rather than in terms of conveying emotion.

That might be an issue but all in all this is an informal 'competition' and it does not bother me really, just something I noticed. I would appreciate the comments and critique much more than winning or losing this...helped me alot to actually make work and play at least ?

But people tend to like music more if it is executed well ?

Jacquesg4j

Nice... Some very nice entries...

Also to add on what's said above... I also didn't feel the emotion on some of the entries. But that is what made the challenge a challenge. To let someone feel what you wanted them to feel is always difficult. In most of them I could feel the emotion and I guess that is why many competetors entered in the "LONGING" sub devision... That was the easiest one in my opinion... I also remember one that had a real "MISCHIEF" sound to it... I enjoyed that a lot.

Concerning the B,I or A... I entered under the BEGINNER as I felt that was where I fitted in when I listened to last month's entries. You can have a great tune that draws a lot of emotion but IF your recording or tone is not soft on the ear it can distract the emotion that you wanted to pull off... As this is my first production and composition and recording I consider myself a beginner.

chris77

Will only be back home on Monday, so will download and vote then. Great to see so many entries though! I may be opening myself for a few shots here, but wtf, here it goes - I would love some crits please. ? I know my recording skills are crap and XrB made a valid point about the cheap fade-out ending trick, but what else can I work on? All comments and crits are welcome hey.

Bob-Dubery

chris77 wrote: Will only be back home on Monday, so will download and vote then. Great to see so many entries though! I may be opening myself for a few shots here, but wtf, here it goes - I would love some crits please. ? I know my recording skills are crap and XrB made a valid point about the cheap fade-out ending trick, but what else can I work on? All comments and crits are welcome hey.

Sometimes you have to fade. But the rules are that a clip should be ABOUT one minute (which I interpret as closer to one minute than two) and in several cases there's a fade when there's enough time to let the piece conclude and that last chord ring or whatever. This has happened before, and it's spoilt some pieces.

I actually enjoyed your entry a lot. There was a real tenderness to it. I know it's not the best recording and I was pretty surprised at the sound that came out of whatever it is that Breedlove fit, but as a tune, as a composition I thought it was a job very well done.

Mannemarak

Jacquesg4j wrote: Concerning the B,I or A... I entered under the BEGINNER as I felt that was where I fitted in when I listened to last month's entries. You can have a great tune that draws a lot of emotion but IF your recording or tone is not soft on the ear it can distract the emotion that you wanted to pull off... As this is my first production and composition and recording I consider myself a beginner.

I agree, I entered into beginner due to my playing skills, but I failed to recognise that it is not the only part of the production that might require getting the emotion across. My recording was also VERY primitive, since I used a Wii logitech mic, plugged into my laptop and Audacity and about 1 hour of playing and recording and re-playing...I have SOOOO much to learn still ???

All in all, a very good excercise and I enjoyed listening to what can be achieved in 1 minute with home recording setup...all you guys have some seriously good talent ?

Wizard

@Squonk.
In listening to that I genuinely felt that same hopeless, sad, empty, rainy day London feeling that Floyd always evoked.
Absolutely brilliant.
Well done.

guitarboy2828

Squonk, LOVED your piece! Do think you should've been in the "A" catagory, however, it rocked! ?

Norman86

My favourite entries in B,I,A:

Mannemarak
Costafonix
Deefstes
Squonk
Dingwall
Schmorglebot

I enjoyed these songs the most... Now how do i choose between the I and A entries?! ai jai jai...

Ray

This is like the upcoming local elections what with the persuasive posts and those what give you a feel of where they're putting their tax money an' all.

V8

Whew, quite a few entries, well done everyone! I did prep a piece, recorded a draft, got flu and missed the deadline!

Costafonix :: Seriously enjoyed this one. My favourite. Great recording you've got there - and some clean playing, eish!
Deefstes :: You sang! Kudos for that, I ditched my entry due to a lack of vocals (flu).
Dingwall :: Hmm, tasty. Bluesy. I like. A lot! (Got bills to pay blues?). The outro is great!

'till next month

costafonix

Thanks V8, :yup:
I'll listen to them all again in the next couple of days and give my 2c worth, there's some great entries this month. ?

Dingwall

Just had a chance to have a decent listen and cast my votes. Some really good stuff guys. I think with this months topic we could have probably dropped the 'B', 'I' & 'A' sub-categories as 'emotion' is one of those things I guess that you can't really measure in this way. My favourite was in the 'B' category for example.

But it is a fun thing and I do think we need to use this forum to be constructive and help eachother. I would really value comments of all kinds as I still have lots to learn in all areas (guitar, recording, feel, tone, technique, songwriting etc) and surely this is one way of helping eachother get a step closer. I think the key word is constructive. ps thanks for positive words V8

Highway-Chile

I think all of the entrants should pat themselves on the back for some very good work. It was great to sit down and work my way through all of them, eventually settling on 4 or 5 that I played over and over as I tried to decide. I voted for an overall winner only.

This leads me to some questions I would like to ask here if you don't mind. Since I am so new here I have not had the comfort of growing with the contests as you all have...I am sure you guys have cleared up any questions you may have had about the finer details, as you've gone along.

So hope you don't mind me trying to play catch up.....here are the questions.

Only four instruments.

Okay so in the case of guitar, bass, drums and keys: Can there be multiple guitars, eg rhythm, lead and various overdubs perhaps even acoustic.......they are all guitars....the same instrument.... ? or same for keys...electric piano and synth....since they are all one instrument......somewhat? ?Or does it mean that only 4 tracks of instruments, total, are allowed....so in the above scenario....a single drum kit track, 1 guitar track-and only that guitar, 1 bass track and 1 keyboard track? Or say......3 guitar trks and 1 bass trk........ 4 gtr trks...etc etc.

Added voice is usually allowed as a "freebie"
So does this mean that a vocal or multiple vocal tracks are permissible IN ADDITION to the 4 instruments? ie a doubled lead vocal and harmonies as well in places?

Duration must be no longer than a minute.

So is the idea to compose a submission that has come to a complete and natural end, within the one minute with no sudden cut off or an unnatural fade.....eg someone takes a song of theirs, much longer than 1 minute, and extracts the portion he/she feels suits the challenge?

For example, as far as the time limitation: if you were composing a song for a :30 sec commercial spot......you would not send a :33 sec file.....or chop the tail off something to make it fit. Is the challenge meant to be fairly rigid about that or is it more about voters and you can cut or fade anywhere as long as it is right around a minute, give or take?

There are two skill categories - Beginner and Advanced. You may specify which you would like to be entered under and you may change category from competition to competition if you feel the need.

So what does that mean really.......Advanced or Beginner as regards what? Guitar ability.....familiarity with a DAW....... mixing/engineering ........songwriting and compositional ability.....producing ability. I see there is also an Intermediate. I battled with this when listening to the clips.....some clips seemed better than the level rating...or the recording and gtr playing sounded great, but the compositional ability was not on the same level. It was a little confusing....but then I am easily confused these days. ?

Personally I think that entrants rating themselves is perhaps not best but if it has been working for you guys why change anything?

Anyhow......... I must just say that whoever came up with this idea and implemented it here should really be given some kudo's.....commended for all the good it is doing, in so many ways. It's a tremendous idea to encourage people of all skill levels to contribute to something like this. To actually record one's self playing, to actually compose something, to orchestrate it, mix it etc and then to also put the finished music up for others to listen to. So awesome.

On top of this is it also good for the sponsors, the manufacturers, the forum....yada yada.....it's a win-win all around.

FruitarGeek

Hi Highway Chile. Im glad you so interested in this part of the forum. I hope to hear some of your entries soon?

Allow me to try clear up some of your confusions:

Only four instruments
It means, you must imagine the song being played live. So drums (no matter how many different tracks you use to mix the snare, bass and high-hat), drums constitute as 1 instrument. Rhythm guitar is its own, as is lead. But you can have seven different lead tracks throughout the song, as long as they don't play simultaneously, or else that would be 2 instruments used (if imagined in a live scenario).

Most people use: Bass, Drums, Rhythm guitar and lead guitar. and thats 4 instruments.

Added voice is usually allowed as a "freebie"
I've never used vocals in my entries but as far as I understand, it would permit 1 extra instrument but only in the case for vocals. Im not 100% sure on this, but from an interpretative point of view, voice is not plural, and the fact that the word 'usually' is there, must imply that it is a real bonus to do so. So for now, stick with one. But hopefully this can be elaborated.

Duration must be no longer than a minute
End how you wish to end. IF you want to fade out, or do a natural ending, that is your prerogative. It may score some good points if you can end it naturally. But it all depends on the song and genre of competition. So you can take a 10min song, but make sure this version ends in 1 minute.

The 1 minute rule, in my opion should be rather strict with some leeway, I for example went over by 16 seconds I think, which is naughty. The challenge factor is trying to get all of it in a min, and also because people have to listen to lots of entries and it makes it easier for it to be shorter. So when in doubt, make it shorter than 1 min than longer. But rules here are not THAT strict regarding time. Just don't be excessive.

There are two skill categories - Beginner and Advanced. You may specify which you would like to be entered under and you may change category from competition to competition if you feel the need.

These rules were updated a while ago. There are now 3 categories as you have seen: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. These categories should first and foremost be used to judge players on their level of guitar playing. However, good producing, mixing, composition skills can definitely influence the listeners opinion, and good song construction is essential to all musicians, so perhaps that too is being judged. Strictly speaking, this is a guitar forum site, so the judging should be purely on the level of guitar playing (based on the theme/genre of the competition) and not the bells and whistles of the recording process.

The participants are also being judged on their ability to follow the theme of the competition. So its a matter of having the good guitar skill, accompanied with the right theme for the competition.

Hope this helps. The competitions are super fun, and as have been bought up already in another thread, they have thousands of benefits to the guitarist.

costafonix

I listened again this morning and here are my comments :-
Jacquesg4j - nice tone on the guitar, and something that creates a true visual of emotion
has a sense of anticipation and good buildup.
Dingwall - great bluesy tune, I really like your mix, I particularly liked the ending
Mannemarak - I admire the fact that you chose to play just a single instrument, no overdubbing
or effects except for a touch of reverb. Very neat playing. You've used the pauses in between
the notes to great effect, also helps in creating the mood.
Schmorglebot - nice mellow tone, once again I can visualise the atmosphere you're creating,
great choice of chords.
X-Rated Bob - early misty evening in some loch in Scotland (or Emmerentia .. ?),,,, a logfire and a glass of whiskey, the vibrato effect compliments this tune greatly.
Kalcium - I like the interweaving guitar bits, very effective. well done.
Squonk - also a great tune filled with emotion, I particularly like the 'distant' lead guitar.
Where do you come up with these titles... ? ? ?
Seventhson - the title says it all...angry and tense Aaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhh....I like the divebombing at the end,,
PeteM - nice full mix, kinda fills the ears....I like your choice of chords too.
Deefstes - one of my favourites. for some reason I picture the end of a party, an empty hall
with the 2 main characters that remained, one of those typical American 'prom' type scenes.
Great key changes..Definitely no need for vocals in this song (not critising your singing or anything, it just detracts from the overall tune)
G-man - well done, good change in direction towards the middle, cool ending
Chris77 - I like the fade in at the beginning. Also a mellow, relaxed tune, creates the mood.
FruitarGeek - good intro, this song also has nice depth, well done.