infernox wrote:
Question is:
I wont be doing any live work instead keeping this in my studio and recording using it. Which would be best for me as most people are saying the Presonus is more for live work due to its flexibility regarding control. Should I just rather save a few bucks (to spend on the other stuff) and buy the A&H even though its analog?

The A&H will probably sound better. I assume you're talking about the ZED-R16? I am not a huge fan of Presonus stuff, but that's just me. Both mixers will do just fine in both studio and live environments, so don't believe the hype. If anything, the mixers were designed to be flexible in both arenas. The only difference is, the Presonus is a fully digital console and the A&H is not. Keep in mind that while the Presonus is a digital mixer, it's a knob-per-function unit which means that what you see is what you get. Also, I find it odd that there's no other digital i/o such as ADAT, AES/EBU, etc for later upgrade options.

I would get the A&H for the sole reason that I trust the company more and I prefer an analog signal chain. I also prefer their converters and mic preamps over Presonus. Will you be working ITB? If so, I would still go for the A&H because, to me, analogue is more tangible on the front end.

Hope that helps.

Cheers ?

Thanx for the very informative responce Mo.

Yes I am referring to the ZED-16R and the 22FX.

I know this is a stupid question, but seeing as the A&H is analog, would the controls on the board still move when I move them on the PC?

Also please explain ITB (most probably know what it is but never heard this acronym)

infernox wrote: I know this is a stupid question, but seeing as the A&H is analog, would the controls on the board still move when I move them on the PC?

No, this is not a moving fader desk. It is basically a 16 channel analogue studio mixer that they stuck a bunch of digital audio converters (AD/DA) into and a firewire connector to interface with your PC and subsequently your DAW software (Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, etc). If you are looking for something like that, to my knowledge the Presonus Studio Live won't do it either. It is not a control surface. If you are looking for a studio mixer with this capability, the best bet is the Yamaha O1V.

See, the Studio Live was designed to be a digital mixer with an analogue workflow. This design is sometimes called "knob-per-function" or something similar, meaning that every knob and fader you see has a dedicated function and does not change. There are no layers to scroll or multiple menu to navigate. It's straightforward. SO, the main difference between the two mixers is that the A&H has D/A converters in every channel (fed from firewire), thus employing what is called the "analogue summing bus", routing, and EQ of the mixer itself, whereas in the Presonus, the channels are summed digitally (fed from firewire) and then converted to analogue at the master bus for monitoring. This enables it to employ digital EQ's and compressors, and effects. For this reason alone I would stay away from it because I, personally, don't trust the Presonus summing engine and don't like the sound (or drivers) of Presonus stuff in general. That's not to say it won't work for you, however. But from what you said about wanting a control surface, this desk just doesn't seem the right choice.

The Presonus is $2000 (about R20 000, maybe more at SA retail), and the Yamaha O1V is $2400 new but you can get one used for around R15 000, maybe less. Make sure you look at the O1V 96 though. That is the best option.

infernox wrote:Also please explain ITB (most probably know what it is but never heard this acronym)

ITB means In The Box, which is a term referring to working solely within the DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software, such as Pro Tools or Cubase, and not bussing the audio out to an analogue console or an outboard summing mixer and processors.

This is the most common mode of working these days. I personally work in what they call a "hybrid" manner, which is to say that I use the DAW software to mix internally but I also bus the audio out through good converters into a summing mixer for some analogue mojo and outboard processing. Neither route can be proven as better or worse. It's just all about what suits your workflow.

Cheers ?

Mo once again thanx for your time in explain all this.

Well I am looking at the A&H ZED-14 then (the new one) or even the ZED 22FX as it is very very well priced with USB etc. This would be fine for recording vocals, guitars and drums right?
14 channels with 6 mono inputs should be enough at startup?

Would I need to use any other pre-amps with this? or any of the AVID stuff?

Also regarding the USB out of the NEW line, would I need to invest in a M-Audio (AVID) sound card?

infernox wrote: Mo once again thanx for your time in explain all this.

No problem at all. My wife is just about to pop out a bubba out so I'm home for now. :?

infernox wrote:Well I am looking at the A&H ZED-14 then (the new one) or even the ZED 22FX as it is very very well priced with USB etc. This would be fine for recording vocals, guitars and drums right?

From what I can tell, the ZED-14 and the ZED-22FX do not allow anything over a stereo recording. In other words, you can only record the stereo sub-mix of a multi-channel recording. If you are recording one thing at a time and are only in need of modest i/o, then yeah, it will be fine. However, if you plug in 6 channels of drums, you will have to mix it on the fly and record the resulting stereo mix. There is no way to record the 6 channels separately. If you're wanting to make multi-track recordings, the ZED-R16 is the only choice in this range.

infernox wrote:14 channels with 6 mono inputs should be enough at startup?

If that suits your needs. But once again, be aware that with these these two mixers you can only make a stereo recording. NO MULTI-TRACK SUPPORT:

The USB output can be selected as the main Left/Right mix (either pre- or post-master fader), or it can send the signals on the Aux 1/2 or Aux 3/FX buses. - www.performing-musician.com

infernox wrote:Would I need to use any other pre-amps with this?

Well, it depends on how many microphones you need at one time. You tell me...

infernox wrote:Also regarding the USB out of the NEW line, would I need to invest in a M-Audio (AVID) sound card?

Er, I am a little confused as to why you're asking about the Avid stuff. Are you using Pro Tools?

Let's back up a minute...

Are you aware that the Presonus, the ZED-16R, and the others are mixers AND audio interfaces? All of these mixers are seen by your computer as a sound card and supply you with any number of inputs and outputs on the ASIO protocol, depending on the features. So, to somewhat answer your question, if you install any of these mixers into your system, you will not need any of the Avid hardware, unless you are using Pro Tools 8 or lower.

That being said, if you want multi-track recording, the ZED-R16 is the only way to go.

Cheers ?

Thanx for that explination and congrats on the almost here baby.

What would be a good mixer to then get which I can do multi track on? Budget wise

infernox wrote: Thanx for that explination and congrats on the almost here baby.

What would be a good mixer to then get which I can do multi track on? Budget wise

Check out something in the Mackie Onyx-i range. They all have firewire multitrack support so they're probably your best bet. I would check out the 1220i or the 1620i.

Cheers ?

That 1220 is very very well priced.

Thanx again and good luck with the baby and your wife ?

Would this also be a good choice? Yamaha MG206C-USB Mixer

infernox wrote: Would this also be a good choice? Yamaha MG206C-USB Mixer

Nope, you can only get a stereo recording out of it, like the cheaper A&H stuff. Any time you see USB connectivity this is what is most likely means.

Stick with the Onyx-i series.

Cheers ?