Fake Chinese Gibsons - My Story!

tBird · 2011-02-23T16:34:55+00:00

Following a previous thread about the fake Gibsons being manufactured in China I secretly went about searching for these Chinese suppliers on the Internet with the view of buying one for myself. I found on online trading portal called Tradetang and searched through the infinite listings of traders selling Fake Gibson Les Paul guitars of various kinds, colours, models, shapes (yes, they seem to be different from guitar to guitar) and styles. I will not reveal the trader's name since I know that there are South Africans who have bought from him as well since I have read their positive reviews about other items, so I will just tell my story in short. I saw pictures of this beautiful black Gibson Les Paul Custom going for 280USD (including case) and added this as a favourite. After communicating with the seller back and forth for a few days I was comfortable that I was dealing with an honorable dealer (not that I had honorable intentions when buying a fake in the first place) and he even sent me private pictures of the guitar. So I jumped in and placed an order and paid with my Master Card - No problem. Shipping added another 80USD and the item was shipped with EMS. I tracked the item as it made its way to South Africa and was delighted when I found a thing in my post box 3 weeks later to tell me to come and pick up my guitar. Paid another R290.00 for VAT at Customs and rushed home with my guitar. I cut away the excessive brown tape from the Styrofoam box and was really happy to see a brand new black Gibson case. I opened it and there it was - My black Gibson Les Paul Custom! Lets move forward 10 minutes! On closer inspection I quickly realized that the guitar was just a p[iece of sh**. From the pictures on the website it looked awesome but on close inspection it is absolutely clear that the thing is just rubbish: 1) The neck is connected at a slight angle to the body with the result that the lower E-string falls off the neck. 2) The entire guitar feels extremely cheap, there are inferior manufacturing details thoughout, the body is pitted in some places and not filled properly, the edges of the body of the guitar are so sharp so as to hurt your arm when you rest it on an edge. The bridge & tailpiece is rubbish and their anchors only go halfway into the body with 3mm of thread still visible, the frets are so sharp so as to cut your fingers, no though was given to the binding and frets hang over this, the logo is incorrect, the diamond-shaped inlay on the headstock is at the wrong angle, the list goes on and on and on! 3) Everything plastic is more "plastic" than normal. The plastic parts of the guitar feels and looks like the plastic used in the manufacturing of kitchen appliances and kids toys and are soft and malleable, really weird to handle. I mean the back pickup cover can be pushed in about a centimeter. 4) Oh yes, did I mention that the guitar came with a broken neck. There is a serious crack just behind the heel of the neck and if you pull on it the crack opens up to reveal a gaping wound all the way through. Now here's the thing - the case is in perfect condition and without a scratch so this guitar was clearly packaged with full knowledge of the broken neck. The dealer claims that the guitar was damaged during shipping and that it isn't his problem and that I should take it up with EMS - what crap! So, I've been had! And you know what - Good! I deserve it! In a perverse way it almost makes me feel good! It got what I deserved! They say a fool and his money are easily parted and I have to hang my head in disgust and recognize that I am such a fool. Here's some pics: Just thought I'd warn you!

DonovanB

tBird wroteSo I thought maybe if I buy this guitar people will think that it's real and I will also be able to be seen playing a "real" custom. Just don't let them examine the bloody thing from close up.

The idea of being cool because you play a particular brand of guitar brings this kind of thing on.
I hate to be a doos when I say this, but if you would accept that people would envy/praise you for something you know to be a lie, then you have a bigger problem than a fake Gibson guitar.

Sorry you had to learn an expensive mistake... I learned it a while back. Nobody cares what you play/wear/look like, who you hang around or how much money you have or don't have.

ESP LTD Sunburst
Jap Custom Tele,
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe
Home-built pedal board, Boss, Digitech, Cry Baby

Thats some awesome gear as it is. Be proud of that. Be YOU, let people see the real you and see a guitar being played by the real you. Only Freddie Mercury could pull off being the great pretender.

Name the ~~doos~~ dealer. Who cares if half is business is legit. If he's a crook in one area he'll probably sell lead lined toys to kids or chalk filled panado to sick people.

Bob-Dubery

No point in trying to dob the dealer in to the police. Nothing will come of it. Either it's legal in the country from which he is operating or the police couldn't give a rodent's rear end.

The one piece of good that may come out of this is that other potential buyers could be warned off. I think your posting is useful warning about what's likely to happen when you deal with fakesters in general, but I don't see any reason to be coy about naming and shaming. It's clear that you're dealing with an unethical organisation.

Bob-Dubery

vic wrote Scary hey !! ? ? These hmmm...people use real serial numbers now.... buyer beware. One needs to correlate a serial number with a model,colour, etc.

Just a thought. Maybe it's a genuine guitar with a broken neck. Somebody took some care over this instrument. It ships with a manual in the case, there's some accessory (I presume a truss rod key) in a zip-loc bag, they even got the truss rod cover right - two screws. Maybe if the neck were fixed you'd have a reasonable instrument.

Bob-Dubery

X-rated Bob wrote
vic wrote Scary hey !! ? ? These hmmm...people use real serial numbers now.... buyer beware. One needs to correlate a serial number with a model,colour, etc.
Just a thought. Maybe it's a genuine guitar with a broken neck. Somebody took some care over this instrument. It ships with a manual in the case, there's some accessory (I presume a truss rod key) in a zip-loc bag, they even got the truss rod cover right - two screws. Maybe if the neck were fixed you'd have a reasonable instrument.

Or am I like lank naive?

Norman86

Im sorry, but thinking that the other half of his business is legit is just not right.
If he can con you out of your money, whats to say he isnt stealing the other "legit" guitars he is selling?
leopards dont change their spots.

Criminals always stay in criminal activities and use criminal ways to get their money.
and i for one wouldnt want to buy from that shop.

I would like to know who it is so i know who the hell to stay away from!!!!

vic

X-rated Bob wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
vic wrote Scary hey !! ? ? These hmmm...people use real serial numbers now.... buyer beware. One needs to correlate a serial number with a model,colour, etc.
Just a thought. Maybe it's a genuine guitar with a broken neck. Somebody took some care over this instrument. It ships with a manual in the case, there's some accessory (I presume a truss rod key) in a zip-loc bag, they even got the truss rod cover right - two screws. Maybe if the neck were fixed you'd have a reasonable instrument.
Or am I like lank naive?

Now that you mention it (being a genuine guitar)...? I notice the fingerboard is not ebony...but the headstock with Gibson logo actually looks quite close to the real thing ?....the binding at first glance also looks real....the 1st serial number is stamped into the wood, just like it should be....but then why paint a 2nd number over that ...? very confusing. I have NOT compared TBirds pics with that of an authentic one yet to check for the lettering and placement of the logo and diamond inlay....this one's inlays on the headstock do not resemble MOP though...? that may be the give-away. The lettering on the truss-rod cover appears to be too thick for the real thing as well. (the resolution of my screen is not very good though)

@TBird...open it up to expose the PUPS and see whether it says Gibson on the underside of the PUPS, check the wiring here...post some pics please...open the cavities at the back as well and check the wiring...

singemonkey

Yeah look. You got scammed. You went for a too-good-to-be-true offer and it was. But I admire that you came clean here and shared the experience for the education of others. A lot of people on the internet, me included, have argued that buying fakes isn't just about a moral issue - they're also total and absolute crap. Because you're buying the name on the headstock, they have no incentive whatever to make a decent guitar. Your story is just another confirmation of this.

That guitar is, I'm afraid, so amazingly bad that even with those first long range pics I could see serious issues: the angle of the headstock, the shape and misplacement of the body cavity covers (the toggle cover looks like it cuts into the binding ??? )

Believe me you're not the first person to experience that your fake is nothing like you expected. Quite a few of those guitars on youtube are reviewed by nimrods who wouldn't know a quality guitar if it could play itself. It's also not unusual for the sellers to use pics of high-end Gibsons to sell the product and then pull the bait and switch and send you something ham-fistedly glued together out of plywood by a slave child by candle light.

It also indicates the value of internet fora. If you'd come here first, a good few of us would have tried to talk you out of it. I'm not saying you could have known to do that. I'm just illustrating how these fora can be valuable to help people avoid gear decisions they'll really regret.

As for your reasons for buying it, as Don says, no one really cares what's on the headstock. It's not you they admire for having a kif guitar. They just admire the guitar. If they're admiring a fake, you're just fooling people. You get no kudos yourself. No one looks at Vic and says: "He's a cool guy because he has some awesome Gibsons," (we like him 'cos he puts up with all the Gibson arguments without getting ruffled - which is way cooler ?). And I'll tell you, if you'd showed me that guitar as a Gibson, I wouldn't even be admiring the guitar. I'd be giving you the hairy eyeball and asking you some awkward questions - and thinking, "Either he's been duped, or he's a douchebag."

Hey. Would you be ok if I reposted your original post on mylespaul forums? There's always someone coming along there asking about fakes and thinking it's a cheap way to get a Gibson. Your story would help to illustrate why it's not such a hot idea. You could post it there yourself (under "other Les Pauls") but I warn you that many of the mylespaul forumites are meaner than rattlesnakes, and the heavy reactions you got here will seem like being patted on the head in comparison.

singemonkey

Hey vic, the shape of the headstock is all wrong too. The sides are almost parallel and straight. Even if the inlays are reasonable (although cheap looking). And the headstock angle is way off. Looks like an old Hohner a buddy used to have.

As to the serial numbers, don't you think that ship has sailed? All they need is about 40 (too many to memorise) and it's meaningless for figuring out whether the guitar is fake.

This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?

Edit: Oh yeah. And, as you say, they haven't even bothered to stain the fretboard to make it look a little bit more like ebony.

Tonedef

singemonkey wrote It also indicates the value of internet fora. If you'd come here first, a good few of us would have tried to talk you out of it. I'm not saying you could have known to do that. I'm just illustrating how these fora can be valuable to help people avoid gear decisions they'll really regret.

+1. While I'm not unhappy with my own chiwanese cheapie at all, I often regret not doing my homework first. It was an impulse buy and in truth I would have spent more cash on a better axe had I gotten advice here first.

Tonedef

singemonkey wrote This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?

The horrible irony of it is that they could probably make a really decent guitar, but if it said "Fong Kong Kuck" on the headstock, nobody would buy it. So it's a self-reinforcing paradox that they've locked themselves into, and it's enabled by people buying fakes.

singemonkey

Tonedef wrote
singemonkey wrote This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?
The horrible irony of it is that they could probably make a really decent guitar, but if it said "Fong Kong Kuck" on the headstock, nobody would buy it. So it's a self-reinforcing paradox that they've locked themselves into, and it's enabled by people buying fakes.

If there's one thing my constant yawping about Asian guitars should suggest, it's that a lot of people are interested in well-made Asian guitars. They'd lose out and actually have to build their brand credibility. But ultimately they'd be making decent money providing quality products. These guys are just scam artists and probably have these guitars made in a furniture factory.

Bob-Dubery

Tonedef wrote
singemonkey wrote This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?
The horrible irony of it is that they could probably make a really decent guitar, but if it said "Fong Kong Kuck" on the headstock, nobody would buy it. So it's a self-reinforcing paradox that they've locked themselves into, and it's enabled by people buying fakes.

Some Tokais are made in China. There is no reason why they can't make good instruments - and in fact they do. Eastman is a Chinese brand.

Just a reminder that not all imitations come out of China. There is a shop in California where you can buy very nice "Fenders" that may actually have one or two Fender components on them - one of those being the sticker on the headstock.

Cheap imitiation Gibsons are not the only guitars coming out of China, and China is not the only source of imitations.

Tonedef

Yes, certainly. I wasn't referring to the chinese as a whole, but specifically at the factories where they make these fakes. If you can put effort into making a copy that could potentially fool people, then you can obviously put that energy to good use and make a proper axe.

But like you say, they're not selling guitars, they're selling the Gibson logo. It must be pretty damn annoying for them to have to build a guitar to go along with it ?

shaunf

Just a couple of points:

Knowlingly buying fake goods is a crime, so forget about naming and shaming because the buyer in this case is just as guilty.

I can't honestly believe that you wasted several thousand rand on what you knew was a fake guitar. You could have saved that money and added to it over time and before you knew it, you could have at least owned a good secondhand LP Custom.

If you want something bad enough you have to work for it. I bought my LP Studio 16 years ago. It cost R5000.00 at the time and I only earned R1200.00pm. Put it on lay-bye and 6 months later I had my guitar.

Tonedef

+1! I dont get why tbird should be the only one eating humble pie. This scamster dealer needs to eat piksteel pastei, imo. Your doing other, possibly honourably intentioned, buyers a disservice by not full disclosing all the details. Roll on the Consumer Protection Act!

singemonkey

shaunf wrote Just a couple of points:

Knowlingly buying fake goods is a crime, so forget about naming and shaming because the buyer in this case is just as guilty.

How does this work? What if you're buying a "Fake Remington revolver from 1878," or a "German sword with the blade falsely marked, 'Toledo' from 1654" as a collector's item. You telling me that's a crime? It's ridiculous. The company involved should have to sue those responsible. The state shouldn't be actively doing their work for them at tax-payers expense.

Tonedef

Counterfeit Goods Act no. 37 of 1997. It's definitely illegal.

ETA: Here's a link. http://www.bowman.co.za/IntellectualProperty/AntiCounterfeiting.asp

Tbird isn't the one performing the crime, the dealer is. Remember that copyright law is internationally ratified.

DonovanB

singemonkey wrote How does this work? What if you're buying a "Fake Remington revolver from 1878," or a "German sword with the blade falsely marked, 'Toledo' from 1654" as a collector's item. You telling me that's a crime? It's ridiculous. The company involved should have to sue those responsible. The state shouldn't be actively doing their work for them at tax-payers expense.

I'm not sure I follow you here?

tBird

Just an update guys! I received an email this morning at around 7 form the "seller" saying that he (Hazel) is prepared to send me a brand new replacement with case free of charge if I agreed to pay for the shipping costs to SA. Since then I've had 3 cups of coffee and half a packet of Marlboros while walking around the garden sweating and mulling this over. Shipping I'm told will be 160USD.

So I logged on to their chat software and he was online. Following some heated discussions to and fro and threatening to expose him on YouTube, guitar forums, Alibaba, Tradetang, etc etc, he was extremely apologetic, saying things like and I quote "I today your friend", "I not here dishonest", "our company for many years good service", "we help bring you happiness", " we solve problem now", " my company also 1 broken guitar", "my company we will replace your precious guitar for your respect we honorable company", "you pay shipping for 1 beautiful Gibson black guitar" etc etc . He also went on and apologized and said that the Chinese national holidays took place during the time (20 Jan to 14 Feb) that I made my purchase and that skeleton staff ran most operations in China during "our time of celebration" as he put it and that this probably accounted for the mishap.

I thought what the hell "once a fool - always a fool" and went ahead and paid for the shipping. He was very nice and "warm" in his attitude and basically said the guitar is in stock and will be shipped before the weekend via EMS.

So there, let's see what happens. If nothing turns up and I'm scammed yet again I will come back and reveal every little detail about this company - I promise!

PS: I've been made an offer for 3K from someone in Cape Town who will use the guitar for experimentation. :?

vic

singemonkey wrote Hey vic, the shape of the headstock is all wrong too. The sides are almost parallel and straight. Even if the inlays are reasonable (although cheap looking). And the headstock angle is way off. Looks like an old Hohner a buddy used to have.

As to the serial numbers, don't you think that ship has sailed? All they need is about 40 (too many to memorise) and it's meaningless for figuring out whether the guitar is fake.

This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?

Edit: Oh yeah. And, as you say, they haven't even bothered to stain the fretboard to make it look a little bit more like ebony.

+1, you're absolutely correct..

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