Modes , the 'grasping' thereof.

joel · 2011-01-31T18:27:47+00:00

Help on Modes please ☹ I've found this explanation on another forum . I've skimmed over it briefly and its actually helped me understand Modes a lot more than any other way I've seen / read about thus far ,............... but Is this explanation factually correct though ? ?.............now all i need is a cheap- ass kiddie keyboard to try this. :-\ Here goes : Best ("easiest") way to learn them: On the keyboards, starting with Ionian in the key of C. Trust me. This is way easier in real life than it looks like, and I'm not a keyboard player. Only the white keys in all examples: Ionian mode - This is the simplest of the modes in many respects as it relates to the white notes of a keyboard from C to C. So really it is just a major scale. Dorian mode - This mode has a minor feel to it. It corresponds to the white notes between D and D on a keyboard. Much like a standard minor scale but with a raised 6th. Phrygian mode - This is another 'minor' mode. It corresponds to the white notes between E and E on a keyboard. This is very much like an E minor scale but the 2nd (normally an F#) is flatted (to F natural). Lydian mode - This mode is the white notes from F to F on a keyboard. It has a major like feel to it due to the major triad it forms on the tonic, but has a sharpened 4th (the B flat of a standard F major scale becomes a B natural). Mixolydian mode - Of all the modes this one is probably the most common. it exists as the white notes from G to G, and is basically a major scale with a flattened 7th, giving it the feel of a dominant seventh. Aeolian mode - This scale is the white notes from A to A. It is sometimes referred to as the natural minor scale as it is the key signature of any given minor scale. Locrian mode - This last mode is strange, but then again expected if you have spotted the pattern. This mode is the white notes from B to B and begins with a diminished triad on the octave. P.S. This is easier on a keyboard because you can play and sustain the root note on a lower key, then play the notes of the mode over it, in order to hear how each mode sounds in relation to its root. For example, in D Dorian, play and hold a low D note, then play a higher DEFGABCD (all white keys) over it. Just try it, it really will make sense

Keira-WitherKay

FruitarGeek wrote I'm now off to learn my Melodic Minor scale, courtesy of Keira ? Btw Keira upon observation of which chord you recommend the scale be played over. There were some hardcore chords there like b9sus4 that I have never seen in my journey of jazz. This makes me sad, cause it means very seldom I will get the opportunity to effectivly use that Dorian b2 scale.

well expansive chords in jazz are usually just used when one needs an extra tone in the song ...... as you know or don't know i do multi part fingerstyle playing where i play a chord /melody or improv and bass line all simultaneously (and of course the percussion ? but thats not relevant re this post) BUT i might have to write down a chord in an expansive way so that it includes the melody line...... and these discriptions just help us to be able to actually write down that chord ...... and the odd thing is the more i grow as a fingerstyle jazz player the SMALLER the chord is i play .often the chord is just 2 notes so i have 2 fingers free for the bass line and melody/improv. however pickingthe correct 2 note is the trick ? jazz is never boring and the better you get at it the more you peel away another barrier and proceed to the next level. a definite "onion" comparison,

but big or expansive chords are dead simple...don't let a big expansive name scare you ......... .....if you know your chord theory ( again for music like jazz theory is soooooooo important cos without the theory which enable you to work out anything you have rely on memorising chords in all their wierd and wonderful shapes and thas almost impossible in complex music ) cos if you know the theory the chord names tells you all you need to know...... then you simply start on the left and do what it tells you ......... i teach my students to cover an expansive chord with their finger and slowly character for character allow it to be seen from the left and simply apply the chord construction rules....
so if you see a Bmaj11b5 step 1. B triad is simply I III V step 2 shift another character right and you see you see Bmaj which refers to a maj 7 so you now have I III V VII step 3 you move again and see Bmaj11 so now you know an 11 will include the 9 too so it's now I III V VII IX XII then the last step 4 you move your finger and see b5 so you alter the V to bV and your final formula is then I III bV VII IX XI = Bmaj11b5

and still with the chord above if you inprov over it you'll try and use the III (which will give it a major tonality) and then if you can include the VII( to give it a major 7 sound which implies it could be a I or IV chord ) the bV IX and XI will flavour any soloing nicely so basically your chord tells you what to play over it BUT if you wanna stay fresh sounding avoid just playing a straight appegio of the chord but attack it from different angles ....

FruitarGeek

Yea I know my chord theory, although there is no way that I am ready or even comfortable to alter a chord on the spot. Im slowly trying to build up my soloing to include chord solo's as so wonderfully demonstrated by Barney Kessel.

Your style sounds extremely sophisticated. Do you have an album? I would love to hear your songs.

Keira-WitherKay

FruitarGeek wrote
Your style sounds extremely sophisticated. Do you have an album? I would love to hear your songs.

sophisticated... definitely NOT ? "unique" thats a better way to describe my style........

and yes i do have 2 cd's out and some documentary soundtracks that are floating about ...... but the most recent cd was almost 3 years ago now.. the songs (all my compositions) are still fabulous but my whole style has improved so much from then to now...... so i see my last solo album as basically a rough sketch of whats happening now ... i desparately need to record soon ......... so hold on for a month or two and i will have something in the bag .......

my original music cd's are mostly acoustic world music, although i have written a full original jazz cd but thats for the future .

as a jazz player i'm doing the solo guitar thing .... but i'm also growing all the time, and since nov 2010 i been employed fulltime at the palace hotel at sun city and that gigs calls for lots of jazz so i been doing 5 hrs of jazz gigs a day 6 days a week for just over 3 months so just the consistancy of it is making me improve so much .... but i still have so much i want to work into my jazz repetoire and style ..... so i'm just developing my style all the time like everyone else ...... and yes i will do a jazz cd of standards too in the near future if only to document the period of gigs i'm doing now.......

but if you want true iniration watch my jazz idol , martin taylor ........ he's basically everything i aspire to be as a jazz player i have no plans to want to be in some hectic modal jazz outfit but playing solo jazz guitar is the pinacle for me .......

here's a taste of martin taylor ....( btw he's the guy who took over in the stephan grappelli band when guitar legend django left ( and passed away) at age 18 ...... to take a legends spot at 18 mmmmmm he was just destined for greatness )

FruitarGeek

Awesome. I will give these a listen as soon as I can.

Btw Keira. Another Question for you. The melodic minor (the first mode) You say use over min/maj Does that mean use over Minor's or majors. or to use over Min7(Maj) as in the chord thats is: 1 b3 5 7? Cause I tried it last night, and that sounds good to me. But once again, its not often I come across that chord.

BobC

Joel

I'll still stand by the one concept that got my head around the basics of modes. I am talking basics here - not the uber jazzy supercallafragallisticpentamoronicminor modes, for which there clearly is a time and place. Yes, this type of uber complex stuff is what some of our favourite guitarists use to create the stuff we can only imagine they sold their souls to compose. However, most of us just want to get over the initial hurdle of understanding the concept and, most importantly, to be able to faithfully reproduce the modal sounds in our own compositions i.e. to 'get' a particular sound from a composition. The following explanation is the best one I have heard so far and the only one which sunk in and I have been able to practically apply.

Now, I am assuming some basic knowledge of chord progressions here. Take the standard chords in a key, whatever key you want, but Lets use the key of G as an example - G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em. These are also referred to as the I ii iii IV V vi (Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor).

Now, the order of the modes has already been mentioned - Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian. Now for the purpose of this explanation, each one of these modes can be thought of to correspond to a chord in the key i.e. G (Ionian) Am(Dorian) Bm(Phyrigian) C (Lydian) D (Mixolydian) Em(Aeolian)

If you are in the key of G, playing a chord progression of which the tonal center is the G chord, your use of the G Major scale over that progression will produce Ionian mode. If your chord progression centers around the iii chord (Bm) your use of the G Major scale over that progression will produce Phyrigian mode. A chord progression in the key of G, centered around the Em chord will produce Aeolian mode (aka minor mode) if you solo over it using notes from the G major scale.

I have experimented with this on my loop station using numerous chord progressions and have found the following to be true - one absolutely cannot impose a mode on a progression if the tonal center of the progression does not correspond to the modal sound you want to achieve. Some folk say you simply need to change the starting and ending point of the scale to impose the mode on the progression. The modal sound is produced through the use of notes from a particular scale played in the context of a chord progression in the corresponding key. The tonal center of the chord progression is what determines the modal sound produced. This is the thing, you need to plan your chord progression in advance to determine what modal sound you want to achieve. Now you could just rattle off sequential ascending/descending scale notes over the chord progression, starting anywhere in the scale and ending anywhere in the scale and it would not always sound musical but there will be no clangers, but you won't sell records simply playing scales over progressions. It definitely sounds better if one nails those chord changes at points in your melody or solo by landing on the corresponding note at the time one changes to a particular chord.

No doubt, there will be hardened jazz/fusion fundies who will say I am oversimplifying this to the nth degree and potentially corrupting innocent guitarists' minds, but I cannot currently disprove this in terms of your standard chord progressions/scales combinations which most popular music uses. Sure it's not perfect and may be flawed when it comes to jazz/fusion etc but it is the only concept which ever made sense to me. I am talking in terms of popular music and not jazz/fusion, in case I didn't already make that clear. I do not claim this is the ever elusive and mystical 'theory of everything modal'.

I don't take credit for this way of explaining guitar modes. I have mentioned this in previous posts on this topic. For those who understand chord progressions / nashville number system / scales etc but are still having trouble with modes, check out Desi Serna's DVD on the topic - www.guitar-music-theory.com. I believe it is available for download these days. You will notice the title of the DVD refers to the modal scales of 'popular music' and this is all it claims to be. No more, no less. I found this DVD to be one of those 'Aha' moments for my understanding of guitar modes. At my level - intermediate hobbyist - this is all I have needed. He uses some very popular examples of solos over progressions and gives a clear explanation of why they are a certain mode and how it all fits together. Check it out.

Cheers

BobC

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