Ultimate Rock maestro

Hammeron · 2011-01-20T20:42:39+00:00

Who is it.....who is the ultimate of all time???? :-\

Explorerlover

And the same goes with Heavy Metal and it's "branches" if you will. It's so convoluted.....I don;t think anybody is sure what is what anymore

Hammeron

I see 'rock' as predominantly Electric guitar driven.

Explorerlover

But then what about Jazz? ?

Bob-Dubery

I think Hammeron's definition is not that bad actually, but ultimately we can always find exceptions to the rule.

Anyhow, by this definition Buddy Holly, I think, must be allowed in but Bob Dylan is more questionable. Television will make it, but John Martyn probably played too much acoustic guitar. Nick Drake and the Incredible String Band don't stand a snowball's chance. What the hell "drove" Little Feat anyway? Steely Dan? I'd contest that whilst they had lots of fab guitar solos the keyboard was the "drive"on most of their songs.

I suspect that there's more to come, a further refinement of the definition.

Don't pay me any attention - I listen to way too much acoustic guitar music. I'm even convinced that some of it rocks.

Malkav

I'm going to have to vote Robert Fripp, just for being the one of a kind musician he is and almost single handedly bringing progressive music into the context it now fits in ?

Let's give a big round of applause for the Mr Spock of Rock. 8)

Here's to hoping King Crimson get off their asses and make another album sometime soon before they all die...

Power to Believe was the BIZNIZ!!! ?

Hammeron

@ Bob.
Yea. I think another noteable exception would be Deep Purple. Unquestionably one of the ultimate forerunners of Hard rock, yet their sound depended largely on the Hammond organ of Jon Lord.
I also think that some of the most haunting examples of acoustic guitar can be accredited to bands like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep or Budgie - all prime rockers.

Jack-Flash-Jr

BMU wrote WTF is an RJ?

Ohhh.. i sincerely hope not Robert Johnson. Gee, why not take it back to the first caveman to strike a musical note from another fellow's head? All music is just a step away from that right?

We're (or at least I am) talking primarily about mythos invested in an individual. If you insist on electricity then the obvious winner is Jimi imho.

Hammeron

I reckon Jimi's the jim-jam....for sure 8)

Bob-Dubery

Hammeron wrote @ Bob.
Yea. I think another noteable exception would be Deep Purple. Unquestionably one of the ultimate forerunners of Hard rock, yet their sound depended largely on the Hammond organ of Jon Lord.
I also think that some of the most haunting examples of acoustic guitar can be accredited to bands like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep or Budgie - all prime rockers.

Huh? Sabbath notable for acoustic guitar? Well I'm sure they used it, but that's about all. Budgie same. Heep.... well a bit more, and they had great harmonies as well which bought a lot to their sound.

But let's cut to the chase here - Zeppelin. They were almost folk sometimes. There's really the meeting point of acoustic whimsy and hard rock potency. Mandolins even ? Page is one of those players who has significant chops on electric and acoustic, and created great parts on both. Lots of bands get the acoustic guitars out for a bic lighter ballad, but Zep did a lot more than that. Page in particular knew a lot about the British folk music scene and has confessed his admiration of, not to mention being influenced by Bert Jansch (putting him in a lineage from Davy Graham whose influence far outshines and outlives his reputation). I'm also sure but can't prove that Page's violin bow tricks derive directly from Danny Thompson who played double bass in Pentangle, Jansch's folk/jazz band.

Interesting point about Purple. I thought that Blackmore provided the kick up the jacksie sometimes, but not all the time. Lord had a lot to do with it as well, as you say. Heep also had some keyboard driven songs when Ken Hensley was in the band and writing.

I miss that whole Hammond/Lesley thing. The guys who knew how to use that stuff got great dynamics with it too, using speed changes on the Leslie as well as the volume pedal on the organ. Plus Hammonds used to get that great clicky, percussive sound.

Squonk

This is what inspired millions all over the world, to me this is the picture of Rock. They might have been very folky as well, but images like this got the Rock industry going. Jimmy might get his influences from RJ etc, but Jimmy was a huge catalyst.

Hendrix might have inspired guitarists, but LZ inspired Rock and Rock Bands

BMU

Geeez talk about over ANAL-ysis. Who's the rock guitarist to rule them all IN YOUR OPINION then.

Hendrix, valid nomination. Puts me to sleep personally, but obviously valid. Page obviously, even Fripp - interesting dark horse nomination . But not robert frkng johnson, for ROCK. You cannot quantify precisely 'what constitutes rock' so let's just pretend to use some common sense, intuition and imagination.

For me itll always be EVH, but that's from my metal-leaning, blues hating POV, certainly there's lots of room for differing opinions.

Ok rant over, go right back to overanalyzing. ?

Hammeron

? ? ?
@ Bob, was the 'Leslie' some sort of spinning speaker system?
There were quite a few acoustic interludes and intros in the Sabbath repertoire. Quite a few complete songs too.

arjunmenon

Great topic.
In the true sense of the word "maestro", i'd have to nominate Frank Zappa & Steve Vai (for his earlier stuff).
On covering a lot of musical ground, Jeff Beck, Steve Morse & Steve Howe are tops for me.
Based on cult status, i guess Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix and Tony Iommi are way ahead.

Bob-Dubery

Hammeron wrote ? ? ?
@ Bob, was the 'Leslie' some sort of spinning speaker system?

Yes. With variable speed rotation. I don't know a lot about them, but I remember seeing some that had two cones that could rotate at different speeds. The Univibe was an attempt at a "leslie in a box".

I don't know what the relationship with Hammond was, but Hammond and Leslie often went together.

Some guitarists back in the 60s would feed their guitar through a Leslie. Clapton did that on "Badge".

Bob-Dubery

Arjun Menon wrote Great topic.
In the true sense of the word "maestro", i'd have to nominate Frank Zappa & Steve Vai (for his earlier stuff).
On covering a lot of musical ground, Jeff Beck, Steve Morse & Steve Howe are tops for me.

Gee... Zappa's got to come in there as well. Massive stylistic breadth - especially as a composer.

To me those polymath kind of guys are very interesting. The-artist-now-known-as-Prince-once-again is another example.

When I was a younger person and even more opinionated than I am now (it's true), my friends and I used to have these deeply meaningful discussions and one of the recurring discussions was about guys who didn't just play fantastic solos, but who conjured up solos that suited, added to the song. In our youthful exuberance and over confidence we decided that any fool could play a solo, it was the APPROPRIATE solo, the IN-CONTEXT solo that was the real deal. Top of our list were Messrs Page, Beck, Walsh, Ronson and Gilmour (that's not a ranking). A bit later we added in Verlaine and Knopfler.

We were young. What can I say?

These days I'd include Richard Thompson, maybe Larry Carlton and Skunk Baxter (Steely Dan had a lot of good guitar players and a lot of good guitar playing) ... oh... and Zappa (I don't LIKE Zappa's music that much, but I respect him as an artist of great integrity and vision). Plus I've also got a liking for guys like John Martyn who followed a unique musical vision but whose playing probably only suited their own work. Ry Cooder might get a look in as well - especially after the performance he dished out on John Hiatt's Bring The Family album. Yeah... Hendrix would get in as well for the integration between his solos and his rhythm parts.

Pah! I'm still arrogant and opinionated. But I am firmly convinced of one thing, and firmly convinced that it's the truth. There is no "ultimate" and certainly no "best". There's lots of guys who are astonishingly good and have things going for them that nobody else has. I recently "discovered" Nels Cline (more correctly I was "introduced" by Stratisfear). Boy! He's some player and has a unique musical voice.

I like not having a "best" or an "ultimate". The world is less clear, less exact, but far more colourful.

Hammeron

Yea, you guys are right, it's not about best or ultimate, maybe "Favourite" is the way to go.
You guys ROCK!....IMHO ?

Squonk

Say no more Hammer

You have to realy spell out what you mean on this forum, dont leave too much up for interpretation ?
That's what's great about this Forum, monumental diversity ?

[deleted]

You have to realy spell out what you mean on this forum, dont leave too much up for interpretation

Amen to that.

Hammeron

....I've got onother 'new topic' brewing.....

Hammeron

Yea, Bob's right.

Those guys, Lord and Hensley, produced incredibly heavy riffs on those Hammond's {I'm sure Hensley used them too} with the Leslie's.....wo yea!!!

Check out Don Airey's history. {He played keyboards for Deep Purple at their Coke Dome gig in May 2010 with Wishbone Ash and Uriah Heep}.
I was there, with my Dad, it was awsome!!!
And the Mighty Steve Morse {Arjun!!!!!} was there too!!!
But Heep were the best! ?

Sory, hijacked my own thread! ?

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